Episode #129 | Additive Manufacturing Needs Policy To Reach Patients with Dr. Naomi Nathan

Healthcare loves innovation right up until the bill shows up. We sit down with Dr. Nayumi Nathan (Naomi), a medical doctor turned public health and health economics leader, to unpack why medical 3D printing and additive manufacturing are often ready before the healthcare system is. If you’ve ever wondered why point-of-care 3D printing can thrive in one hospital and stall in another, the answer is usually not the printer. It is reimbursement, evidence, and policy.

We dig into how Mobility Goes Additive (MGA) builds a Europe-wide ecosystem that connects hospitals, MedTech companies, researchers, regulators, and industry partners to move from scattered pilots to real adoption. Naomi explains why the EU is uniquely complex for healthcare market access: health authority is national, so scaling custom medical devices, patient-specific implants, and hospital 3D printing programs means navigating 26+ reimbursement and governance environments. That reality changes how startups and scale-ups should plan timelines, partnerships, and investment needs.

The conversation gets concrete on what must happen next: registries, multi-center studies, and credible patient outcome data that can support evidence-based policy and sustainable payment models. We also talk advocacy, political champions, and why additive manufacturing needs “commitment followed by investment,” including scale-up funding, not just startup grants. Along the way, we reality-check bioprinting hype and share what it will take for patients to one day ask for a 3D printed knee like it’s normal.

If you care about the future of medical 3D printing in Europe and beyond, listen, subscribe, and share this with someone building in healthcare. After you listen, leave a review and tell us: what is the biggest barrier to adoption where you live?

YouTube: coming soon

Show notes: coming soon

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

Welcome And Quick Disclaimer

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Please listen to the disclaimer at the end of this podcast. Hi Nayumi. Good to see you. Good to see you, Jenny. It's been a while. Happy to see you. I think the last time we saw each other was at the Materialized Conference earlier this year. But I have known you for at least three years now since you joined MGA, which is Mobility Goes Additive, is an organization located in Berlin. Now, when I was doing research for this interview, I was surprised to find out that you actually have a medical degree. I didn't know that. So technically speaking, you're Dr. Nathan. Yes, I am.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

Sometimes I guess like, are you a real doctor? And I'm like, Yes, of course. I did everything that you have to do to do medicine. I just decided that different parts I enjoy more.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

But yes, I am Dr. Nathan. Yes. And I I would say looking at your career path, you were a trained medical doctor, but then also went into public health. That also says a lot about who you are and what you want to achieve in life. Now, instead of me narrating your biography, I would like you to tell us how did you go from being a doctor to public health and then to now?

From Medical Doctor To Systems

SPEAKER_01 1:09

Yes, at the core of it, right? It has always been this, will I say, goal or dream of mine. I know you're young, you don't really know what purpose and all that, but your field is leaning and there's always been to save people, and there's healthcare, to make people's lives better, right? And for me, it has been the call of medicine and healthcare. That's why you'll also see throughout my trajectory. I've stayed in the healthcare field. I studied medicine, finalized as a general practitioner. But along the lines, I've always wanted to see how healthcare systems could work efficiently and effectively to treat more patients. I always say, as one doctor, I can count the amount of patients I will treat. But if I look at a population view, and that was why I went into public health, actually, how can we even reduce people going to sick care? So more or less going from sick care to preventative care. And then in public health, I also realized in all this discussion about how do we make systems better, what is really relevant is how these health systems are being structured. So the governance, the economists, which is the money. So I did my specialization in governance and health economics in public health. So trying to understand how do we even make the budget work and how do we govern the healthcare systems that they can actually need the right access to care to patients that need them. As you can see, that has been the trend. It has been medicines, whether it's like finding interventions to give patients good care, but even going to the more systemic level, which is how do we create policies and shape the healthcare systems. And then I find myself in innovation, which is how do we even get the new interventions to people that need them. So yeah, this has been my background and really my core, like trying to give healthcare access to those that need

What MGA Does And Why

SPEAKER_01 2:48

them.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

Yeah, love it. Now tell us a little bit about MGA. First of all, I I couldn't figure out what MGA is. It felt like it was in the transportation system, but then it actually goes uh focusing on additive manufacturing, and you are the healthcare division head right now. So tell us a little bit about MGA and how did you end up at MGA?

SPEAKER_01 3:10

I would say um MGA found me. I found it at the right time, so it was like a good timing. But yeah, people do wonder what is the real association doing with healthcare? But I have to clarify that then the bong the meat, because yes, people do get us confused because, of course, the history of MGA, which this year we're celebrating our 10-year anniversary, was starting with Deutsche Bahn and some of the founding fathers, like Siemens Materialists, and the rest, being at this crossroads of finding solutions for spare pads in the rail industry and seeing that, oh, we do need different stakeholders and setting up this ecosystem which brings together all the relevant key players to ensure that you not only know how to transition into additive manufacturing, but also develop new tools and new ways to do things and get additive manufacturing into the industry. So, along the lines, I think for a good four years, MGA was operating as Mobility Goals additive, but then there was this trend in medical. Of course, you know how healthcare is. We also do need a lot of new interventions, and additive manufacturing was going into the space. So the section of medical was started. And my predecessor, which a lot of people won't have known, Cora Ludetoykaff, very hard name, and you were also collaborating with her, was leading this uh division and really seeing how do we even shape the topics in healthcare. Because trust me, we always think healthcare is very complex, different stakeholders, but there's so much to learn from other industries, whether it's how to work well with other partners or how to even shape projects. And this has been the core of Medical Goals Additive, as we call it, which is under the healthcare division, seeing how do we ensure that the healthcare-related interventions that are enabled by additive manufacturing are also being developed and processed well with the right stakeholders. It's all about working with the right people, and that's how we work.

SPEAKER_00 5:02

So is MGA an industry group would be an accurate description, or is this actually funded by the government?

SPEAKER_01 5:07

Yeah, non-for-profit organization, not funded by the government, though we have some grants. We are mostly like a network, so we work with membership fees, so it's really members-driven, or as I call it users-driven. It is really about the technology. So I would I would say the distinction I made from an industry association is that even though we we do have the topic of focus of additive manufacturing, we're also cross-cutting with policy making and advocacy. So we are really just representing the technology itself and the core of MGA.

SPEAKER_00 5:37

So, would it be accurate to describe it that started with transportation, the railroad system, but then now they want to transfer the same set of skill set or mentality into the healthcare side as well for MGA?

SPEAKER_01 5:50

So I would say it's uh it would be accurate to say we started with transportation and a bit of more industry because we have subgroups in aerospace, construction, automotive, and then more or less sharing this learning, but also going into healthcare, which we can't just adopt the learning, then we have to adapt it into healthcare and seeing how we impact the healthcare field. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

So MGA is considered an EU-based organization rather than Germany-based organization. Would that be accurate too?

SPEAKER_01 6:19

That would be very accurate. And I mean, even when we started with the European Healthcare Forum for Additive Manufacturing, which is AFAM, we had to make sure that the name is AFAM because it is about showing that we represent Europe and not just Germany. A lot of people think, oh, this German-based association. But if you also look at our member base and you look at our partners, we really and the work we do, particularly in advocacy, it's um really shaping like just Germany, but Europe as a whole. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

Right. Apparently, you have to work with European Parliament.

SPEAKER_01 6:50

Yes, we do. I mean, it has really been the case, and also maybe from my health policy lens and um also working a lot closely with strong um industry players, seeing that we cannot shy away from topics of policy because if you understand governance, if you understand politics, you have to be able to shape this point to be able to make the right changes. So if we have industry partners complaining about there's no more money for in additive manufacturing, we are taking the topic up to say, hey, this field is really beneficial and there needs to be political commitments to put it forward. So yes, we are actually actively in that.

SPEAKER_00 7:23

Yeah, I know nowadays people actively avoid the topic of politics, but I hate to say this in healthcare, a lot of things you have to care about politics and have to talk about it. Now, going from the railroad to healthcare, that these are this is a big jump. You also mentioned there's some cross-pollination in terms of policy-making ideas. Are they really benefiting from your healthcare policy background, or you also benefit some from the railroad side of things?

SPEAKER_01 7:49

I mean, it's really about like cross-sectoral learning, I would say. This is really how I would shape it. And if you look at how things are being done, I would say healthcare has done things in a lot of ways that has remained very traditional. And for me, it's also good to see how industry players like have navigated some policy changes and things like that, while also making sure that they are aware that you can't just change things in healthcare. It's a very traditional regulated field. It's a two-way learning street from my side, understanding the health policy side and also seeing the opportunities from not only rail but industry, that how things can be shaped quickly moved, and also bringing that to healthcare. So it's more like a cross-pollination and cross-sectoral learning, which for me is very fascinating.

Why EU Healthcare Is Complex

SPEAKER_00 8:37

Well, earlier in this conversation, you mentioned that healthcare is a very complex subject. I thought EU is easier than us to understand because you're more of a universal healthcare system. In the United States, this is even more fragmented and complex and just mind-boggling. But I'd like to hear your perspective about the EU healthcare system. Why did you think this is complex and is it more complex than the United States? I'm just curious.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

Yes, that's really something that people need to like understand more. I mean, when we talk about the EU, the EU is very united in a lot of things, but when it comes to health, the agency is national. So that means you're not dealing with one big EU body, you are dealing with the what 26 plus member states, right? And this is really the case here when you're navigating for us United States Manufacturing, seeing how we make personalized care or 3D printing even reimbursed. Like this is a question. In the US, I think you have to just work with Medicaid and see okay, how Medicare, yeah. And in the EU, you have to discuss this with each national counterpart, right? So there, yeah, so you see the complexity begins to widen. And of course, on the EU level, there could be a political commitment saying this is a very good technology, but the EU cannot enforce member states to adopt things. So beginning to understand this complexity and explain it to additive manufacturing stakeholders, particularly industry partners that are just like, let's go into healthcare. And I'm like, you have to commit for the long run. This is not a joke, right? And then in the EU, having to say, okay, if we even break it down, now you go nationally. The different stakeholders you have to engage and discuss with, this also requires a lot of stakeholder mapping, understanding even who are the real players. And this is a complexity of the field. It has always been a complex system in product management, like kind of a wicked problem. And we try to solve this by bringing more clarity, bringing more understanding that we decide the steps we need to take. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 10:37

Yeah. Unlike my other podcasts, you know, oftentimes I talk about technologies. I think this episode is refreshing to think about the challenge really does not lie on technology itself only, but also on a systemic side. And you're the one who is leading the way in Europe right now to tackle these barriers to scale up the additive manufacturing industry. Now let's go.

Hospitals And Point Of Care Printing

SPEAKER_00 11:00

We mentioned a little bit about healthcare 3D printing or using 3D printing in hospital systems. What do you think are major challenges right now of being adopted by hospital systems in Europe?

SPEAKER_01 11:13

It's a good uh thing that you mentioned hospital first because you see from our medworking groups when we talk about healthcare, I will break it down into the hospitals, then we go into pharmaceutical companies, medical devices. But let's zoom in more into the hospitals because this is a big trend now we're seeing with the point of care printing. And one of the biggest challenges, I mean, probably you know this theory of change and like innovations where we have early adopters and then we have those that are really stuck in their way of work. And what we are seeing now in the hospitals, there are a lot of, there's a lot of enthusiasm. There's a lot of expert doctors that are excited about 3D printing. But we're hitting a wall because at some point we're not getting the money back. So nobody's really reimbursing you for using 3D printing, even though we know that it works. And what is lacking is because we haven't gotten to the point where we have a holistic multi-like center study or even registries that shows these are the cases that have been 3D printed, this are the patient outcomes, this is the impact. So this has to do with a lot of whether studies to showcase this in the long run or in the past years that 3D printing has been used. And so this is uh one of the challenges we're really trying to tackle to start from a really small-scale approach, whether it's nationally or even just a few hospitals, to collect this evidence, because we really believe in evidence-based policy in Europe, and this is really the case. So we have to come together, work with hospitals, collect and make the studies to be able to show that the technology works, because we do see it. We have several studies that show from hospitals how 3D printed is changing the way of work for surgeons, cutting time for surgery, also making it more easier for patients to heal after the process and quicker. So all this and also cheaper in some cases. I know there is this whole argument about how do you measure the cost, is it from paying Zimbabwe's processing? But looking at point of care specifically and those custom made that, for example, an industry partner will not benefit much from making just one part for the specific case. This is much better. So collecting the evidence, creating the systemic way is currently what we haven't done, but we are on the way of addressing this challenge. And this also feedbacks what I say most other people excited about healthcare. They always think healthcare is a cash cow. Yes, if you look at the numbers, you see yes, there is a whole industry with billions of money, but you have to be committed. So it's not the money that you will just say in two years I will get this back from joining the healthcare industry. You have to know that it takes time. But once you're a patience game, it's a patient, it's a patient sector. It's not one of just quick return. And this is something that I'm also trying to convince people. Industry partners are excited about healthcare because we do need not just the hospitals, but we also need industry partners to commit to such efforts. It's like a concerted effort that you have to be in it for the long haul.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

You mentioned that creating evidence is very important for the industry.

Building Registries And Better Evidence

SPEAKER_00 14:04

Are you guys leading the way of collecting evidence, or is there um somewhere else there is a registry that you follow? Um, in the United States, I know that American College of Radiology have a registry for 3D printing. I'm not aware of other registries, and I certainly don't think we have a centralized organization like MGA right now, is doing that. So tell us about this evidence collection process right now for you. And if people want to be part of this movement in EU, how can they participate?

SPEAKER_01 14:31

Right now it's me and of course now have help 50% and volunteers due to the momentum that is building. So it's still in the process, but from the last year where we identified, okay, this is the way to go. Uh, we have been working with hospitals, partners, and that's the good thing about MGA. We're kind of like a coordinator and orchestrator. So it is not just on my head alone, it's from hospitals, it is from researchers, uh, a couple of ones I'll mention from the Netherlands, from Italy. So, first of all, we started with even looking which countries ahead, because this was already like a maze, right? They're having a call and everybody saying, Oh, we're doing this, we're doing this. But which one is getting us closer to even the evidence that we can walk with? Currently, we have seen that the Netherlands has a very good registry system, so we are hoping that we can build on this and start with the Netherlands, and then Italy is also like really doing a lot of work. And the only problem we have seen, I mean it's not a problem, is the way the health system in Italy is also shaped, that it works with the regions. So we have a region that is far ahead, but then that does not mean the whole country is far ahead. But in the Netherlands, yeah, so this is another complexity, another layer to the complexity in Europe. But we see that in the Netherlands, at least there is some developments which could be on a holistic uh level that we can emulate and then test or make wider on a European scale. So this is why I would say it's not MJA is coordinating, it's trying to bring all these efforts together, but I kid you not, it is a lot of stakeholders. I mean, if I remember last year when we tried to have a big consortium, which obviously we couldn't make it due to the complexity, but now we have decided to go on a more strategic focused approach. There were over 40 plus consortium members having yeah, different ideas. So imagine putting that together. It is no joke overwork. So this is something we are but for me, it gives me energy because at least I can see the momentum. I can see that people on this are beginning to understand this and like say, okay, we will still try to find a way forward. And this is the difference, yes.

Reimbursement As The Real Blocker

SPEAKER_00 16:35

Now let's go back to bringing 3D printing to the hospital systems. Of these major challenges, include the friction, procurement, reimbursement, regulation, and standards. Which one of these do you think is the biggest problem of all?

SPEAKER_01 16:49

Wow, yes. So which one of these? Or you can add your own. Maybe I will start with elimination. So, in terms of regulation and quality, I think we have gotten more clearer in terms of regulations and quality, that there is some kind of roadmap to follow. If you follow that roadmap, then this is out of the way. So I will take that out of the box. And the other one in terms of procurement, procurement has always been like hospitals buy equipment, they go around with different suppliers. I would say the procurement in terms of mentioning particularly 3D printed part is not really there. It's not like we we have big orders saying it has to be 3D printed. But it's there's still more clarity on that, right? So then then the big elephant in the room, which I mean a lot of people are singing it now, but I try to make them clear reimbursement. I was having a call uh two days ago with a volunteer that's helping me now, a health economist, to break down this topic. Oh, I was in a conference in Brussels and they were like, we're working on reimbursement for 20 years now. So gosh. And yeah, I would give a shout out to King King Gash, she's the one that made that comment. She's a health economist. And I was like, yes, I hope 3D Printing people will understand this, but I hope we don't take 20 years because I'll probably have gray hair by then. But of course.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

Well, 20 years is like at least three generations of startups.

SPEAKER_01 18:17

Exactly, right? But I mean, the the um we can also see a good big momentum now from the EU trying to make things easier. We're having sandboxes for different things, whether it's regulatory, hopefully reimbursement, we can find around it. But it is really the big elephant in the room, right? And reimbursement in the sense of making it custom 3D printed. Because when it comes to medical devices and all those things, those are clear. And this is why I go back again to this evidence and value of 3D printing, which we haven't really had on a systemic way being able to show that. So this is the big challenge. I keep emphasizing it because I also want people to know that if we if you mention that you are interested in reimbursement and you want to solve it, you also need to know that it's not a one-day commitment or one-year commitment. You have to keep going. Otherwise, other topics will sweep it under the carpet and we will just lose it.

SPEAKER_00 19:07

So it's either we say as an industry we want to tackle reimbursement. I absolutely agree that policy making for a new industry like additive manufacturing is extremely important. Because otherwise, you know, for the US, for example, if you're a 3D printed innovative device, one way you can do is just get the old reimbursement code to get reimbursed. You can't really create your own new categories despite the fact that you're more effective, despite the fact that you're potentially cheaper.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

This is also what tradition, like I mean, medical device company they're doing, right? They're using 3D printing, but they just follow the the way of doing other devices. So that way it's not really, but particularly for hospitals, particularly for new methods of maybe making even let's say replacements of some particular devices, I think it would be important to showcase the value because otherwise, then are we kidding us? What then we are competing on the same front with milling and traditional ways, and it's like, okay, how can we show our value? For me, the question, the main thing to answer here is are we ready to commit to showing the value of 3D printing? And that's really what we need to answer. Yeah, absolutely.

When Innovation Outruns The System

SPEAKER_00 20:13

Now, you come across a lot of startups on your cohort of day-to-day interactions. Have you seen any company or any technology? The technology is ready, but the healthcare system is not. And that because of that, the technology died as a result. Have you ever seen that happen?

SPEAKER_01 20:28

One of my hearts now in MJ is I'm also on the public health innovation, well, I call it now, Council F for the WHO, which is the World Health Organization, and we're trying to see new innovations. And yeah, we are seeing that there is a lot of great ideas, new things, but it's falling. The system is failing it, right? So, especially in healthcare, this is like the order of the day. You see, we say like the innovation is too quick for the time, it's not ready yet to accept it. And we're trying to change that. I was a big supporter of when uh the head of public health innovation in WHO even started this topic. I mean, brilliant that even the World Health Organization, I say WHO a lot, we're not without realizing that not everybody gets the acronym. That's the World Health Organization, seeing that there is a lot of innovation that is falling through the cracks. And in the same vein, we are saying we need new innovation. Making this bridge has started now, and we have been working on this for almost getting to nine months and plus, seeing how do we create a resolution or a pathway, a roadmap for countries to be able to recognize innovation and enable them to go into the health systems. So it's going to be a long way, but I would tell you on the European side, I think people are tired of that. And those efforts are being put in place to translate these innovations into adoption.

SPEAKER_00 21:47

I think that's a really good segue to our next topic, which is how do you or MGA move the system?

What Policymakers Must Commit To

SPEAKER_00 21:54

Now, let's say hypothetically we have collected solid amount of evidences that we need. Devices are generating benefits, safe, effective. What do you want to ask the policymaker to give you? What are your big three wishes? Or let's just say one. One wish. Oh yeah, one wish.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

I have so many wishes. Yeah, one wish for me will be to have like commitment, right? Like what might be my political commitment? So if I give the example of like robotics and AI, it's on the mouth and lips of everybody in Europe right now. Even if I come with an invention and I don't have AI in it, it's like you're crazy. And where does that come from? It comes from a lot of discussion with politicians, making them see the impact of AI. So for me, this is what I would like on the policy level: that this commitment is translated into more investment into AM. And that would be the key ask that they follow with investment. Commitment followed by investment and not just investment for startups, investment for also scale-ups. Because again, we have so much money to start something, but we need a lot of money. Like if I talk about getting into the healthcare system averaging taking you like five to ten years, you don't just need startup money, you need scale-up money. So this follow-through that you say I'm committed and I'm going to support this with investment that goes beyond just saying let's do another startup show. No, we have to scale up as well.

SPEAKER_00 23:16

Yeah. So you mean like EU allocate buckets of money to certain grants that would accelerate AM, either startup or uh in a scale of process?

SPEAKER_01 23:27

Yes, more specifically, financial commitments to scale up this. Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 23:32

Skin in the game, basically. Now, do you actually go to the EU parliament on a regular basis? Like how do you maintain a relationship and the conversation?

SPEAKER_01 23:41

So we do not go on a regular basis, but of course, that's the power of partnerships. I was uh last speaking in the parliament this year at the end of June, thanks to the invitation of one of our partners, which is uh Chechy Mo, that's also the Industrial Association. But seeing that there is a big and the topic was on healthcare, and of course, MJA has gone deeper in healthcare more. So we do exchange a lot because they are based in Brussels on the European level. However, on the German level, we are also very active with the Germany Makes initiative, seeing how they exchange every day, giving recommendations, pushing for key topics of AM to be, particularly again, financial commitment, because we know that this is important. And then also on the other lines, which is the hops for the AM networks. This started last year, and we're trying to collect all the different networks that are doing something on a country level and seeing how do we also impact their government. So these are the different ways, and of course, Europe and European Parliament or European councils being on the top, but nationally also doing the groundwork. So it's a lot of writing. I tell people it's a lot of writing, it's a lot of presence, it's a lot of uh knowing the right ways to frame things. But another thing that particularly surprised me was how a lot of industry players in the AM world do not understand policy making. It's also for us also trying to inform better and show, hey, we are really on your case here, showing that this will translate into eventually business a return of investment, but this is key, yes.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

Yeah, I think in addition to money, um, is there any other kind of policies? So that will be your version number two, to also be instrumental in achieving what you want to achieve in terms of policy makings.

SPEAKER_01 25:23

In addition to money or financial commitment, what I see that we are also missing is this champion in the topic, right? And that plays two roles in terms of the political will. In policy, we call this do we have a political will? This is somebody to support this, and that translates into making the policy call AM. I mean, we were celebrating earlier this year how the Germany, the new coalition paper, had additive manufacturing in it. So that shows you how important the topic is itself. And I would say even that is the first before the money, because for you to have your topic on the document or on a policy strategy, then of course the financial commitment follows. This is really the top that politicians are recognizing how AM plays in the new focus for the EU is competitiveness, tech sovereignty, preparedness, security. And this is where we're saying, yes, AM is an enabler. It's enabling all these things. So for politicians and policymakers to understand that we are a technology that will support them in meeting these goals and also pushing this vision. I think this would be a very good thing. Say, okay, we are doing 10,000 things, and this is how it fits into your agenda with policymakers. They are inundated with so many requests, right? And that's how they come to this point and say this is our goal. And it's a shame if you just come and say, no, we want to do 10,000 things. It's for us what we have to learn, and that's what we are doing at MGA, is channeling all our efforts to say, hey, we are supporting you with this, and this is how AM enables it.

SPEAKER_00 26:53

I think that communication bridge is super important. I remember years ago, I accidentally met a congressman in a social event, and he knew that I was a doctor, and immediately started to talk about how he supports cancer research. I'm like, you know, there's so many things in a US healthcare that need help. I think, yes, cancer is a big topic. Clearly, the oncology organization did a great job communicating to the politicians. But the rest of the other important sectors in healthcare did not get into the will part of the policymakers. And understand policymaking process, I think is like a mystery to a lot of people like me who are just focusing on engineering, technology, and healthcare most of the time. So I'm absolutely in agreement that we need people like you who understand to bridge these different elements together.

SPEAKER_01 27:44

I would like to emphasize this fact of communicating, communicating, and raising awareness, as I mentioned before, AI and robotics, not this kind of AI robotics, it can actually be very relevant to 3D printing. Yes, very relevant. And that's the thing like we're saying, how do we even like find new allies to tag along with? But just knowing that, and I give this example of um rare diseases as well, right? Like how the real diseases community has managed to like push and communicate this. So we need to learn, and that's why I say industry partners, we need to understand this because one are the days where we're like, oh yeah, we just want to focus on our business and sell a couple of printers. So now we need to we are in a technology that is shaping and changing and transforming healthcare. So we need to start speaking that language. That's what pharmaceutical companies do, that's what med tech advices companies do. So why not us? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

Yeah, we we need to look at the forest and not just a couple of trees. Exactly. Now let's go back to a couple of trees

Startup Signals Bioprinting Reality Check

SPEAKER_00 28:38

here. We interact with a lot of European startups. Actually, I think Pitch3D program hosted a couple and they're a fantastic technology. Now, I have no idea if they're gaining traction in the EU or not. Like, do you have any signals in, you know, if you're looking at a startup and they have gotten some contracts maybe with one hospital or country, do you have any signal on your end that you say, oh, this company is really doing something incredible from breaking down the barrier from a systemic side? Do you have any signals like that?

SPEAKER_01 29:08

So when you say signal, I would say what we what I usually do is more like scouting. So obviously, we have media partners like yourself, 3dprinting.com, 3ddruk.com, and all these players that we see in report 3D natives, what are the new things, right? So for me, it's always important to see how they are changing the trajectory and the landscape of healthcare. So this would be my way of signaling. And most times I try to contact them, try to say, okay, what are you doing that is new? Because again, in our discussion, in our presentations, we like to showcase the technology and seeing the new trends, not just the I mean, I always say we have to be boring a bit to convince and not always do a new thing, but it's also important to show that we are not stuck, we are also innovative. So this right balance, right? Especially right now in the area of bioprinting, which I am very interested in seeing the new things that are coming up. And this is really building traction. Like when you talk about, I mean, people are still in this, which I try to debunk a bit, we are not printing organs yet. So please don't confuse it because I don't want to create this hype again that we get lost, right? So I'm seeing that there is a lot of affinity for bioprinting, but also good technology in 3D printing that is working and can change lives or shape things. So in terms of signaling, yes, I do a lot of technological scouting and also relying on you and your information on your website and things like that. But maybe Yeah, yeah, I do. Actually, I do. So maybe there is another way to make it more systemic. But I as I said, and another thing I think is very important, like we can't do anything. I mean, you also know how it is running like different things at the same time. But what's this is where in terms of startups, looking at what is really transforming, but also seeing that maybe in the long run, doing something more holistically and saying, okay, how do we move from just scouting to making them more interact with healthcare systems as well?

SPEAKER_00 31:02

Yeah. Wow, I think people can easily get passionate about 3D bioprinting in Oregon. Hopefully, the next time I see another congressman, the person is gonna are you gonna 3D print an organ? I bet that's what they're gonna ask.

SPEAKER_01 31:14

No, really, even in like the policy level, like they're like, oh my god, you I'm like, no, no, it's don't don't get it wrong, not yet. We are doing so, don't get it wrong. We are not printing organs yet, but we at least we are in the cells.

SPEAKER_00 31:28

Yeah. Yeah, I actually think in the short 10 years that I have been interested in 3D printing, it has grown tremendously. I'm actually really impressed of how deep the penetration of the technology in. For example, the orthopedic space is very dramatic. Now all the big device makers have 3D printing, a lot of them in-house or a very steady supply, third-party manufacturers. You couldn't name one major device maker that doesn't use 3D printing or a 3D printed device as product. I'm not sure they're making money more, but they're definitely using it. And I now have relatives who have used it for knee replacement, and they really loved it.

SPEAKER_01 32:05

I see this is something that I also like, oh like one of my wishes that most of this like big tech manufacturers could at least say we are using 3D printing, right? Like, because I think like once because I don't and this is something I'm getting like more pushed to understand what is the root cause of shielding it like a way. I mean, everybody says it's like using another technology.

SPEAKER_00 32:26

I've seen multiple Wall Street Journal articles just kind of skirt around it. I'm not really sure why that's the case. Like, do we have a bat rep in history or or what? Why? Why did they just avoid that word?

SPEAKER_01 32:38

I was writing, I was like, why do they go around 3D printing? And they all say, like, well, sometimes when they're like, Yeah, we've been using 3D printing. Like they do it like, oh, we have been using it for and I'm like, okay, but why don't you talk about it? Maybe as an industry we need to reflect on this, right?

SPEAKER_00 32:51

Why are people I wonder maybe it's because of trade secret concerns? Maybe that could be it. That could be it. We're we're just reversing.

SPEAKER_01 33:02

Printing does not mean that we know how your parameters are, or like we're going to, you know, so this other, but you're right, it's also related to trade secrets. I mean, as I said, a confidential field, healthcare, and so we know that people don't want to just give away their trade secrets. But for us, you and those with customers that you, I mean, I also know people that outrightly say yes, we are willing to talk about it, right? But it's not a lot. So finding that balance between like really strong industry players that say, manufacturers, we are using 3D printing, and maybe this is how it impacts us. I hope that we will get there also eventually. And this is my wish.

SPEAKER_00 33:38

Just so you know, many years ago, probably more than a decade ago, I visited the SpaceX factory, the SpaceX location in LA, just by a very unlucky occurrence, and they had a fleet of Metal 3D printers there actually making engines, just so you know. So I don't think it's a secret now, but imagine that you're 10 years ahead of your manufacturing ability because you got the smartest engineer who knows how to use these machines and you know what it can do. It gives you a legs up in entire industry.

SPEAKER_01 34:09

No, you were so right, uh Jenny. And I think this is also what the other healthcare manufacturers they have done that, but they don't want to like expose it. Maybe at some point when we we get more and more confident about our technology and showcasing the evidence that hey, we're not printing toys. I still get that sometimes. That oh my god, all the time.

SPEAKER_00 34:29

That's the only thing I can find on TikTok.

SPEAKER_01 34:31

And I'm like, we are not printing toys, we are actually printing. Like, I always travel now with a small 3D printing kit, and I have like an elbow joint and things showing people like, what? You're printing metal? Like I'm like, whoa, we have a lot of work to do, right? So I would say it's coming, and I guess this is also part of the work, right? We're creating this awareness around this that no, we're not just printing toys.

SPEAKER_00 34:55

Absolutely. Now, I remember during the materialized conference earlier this year, when we were together, we met, you know, a lot of people, and many people are part of this and that organizations, and we're like, do we need so many organizations?

MGA Strategy Collaboration With Action

SPEAKER_00 35:08

We are having those conversations because I believe MGA is critical in the success of AM in medical in general, not just in Europe. But how do you, first of all, differentiate yourself from all the other organizations? There's so many of them. And two, is as an organization, do you because you you're talking a lot about policymakings now? Do you consider yourself a lobby group? Yeah, I want to go from there just to see how how can you stand apart from the other organizations?

SPEAKER_01 35:36

Yes, you're so right. Spot on we talked about this, not only even the different organizations, but uh also the different events and things that are happening all around. So many. So many, yeah. And for me, what I try to tell people is that what MGA has that everybody else does not have, it's this ecosystem and like bigger picture perspective. And what do I mean by that? It's that you are having, so most of the other groups I've seen, it's like either a group of engineers, surgeons, or things like that, but we are bringing everyone together. And this is the hard task. Like you are trying to say, hey, we need to come together, whoever needs to shape the 3D printed industry in healthcare. We can pick your language, translate to move this industry forward. And we are the only ones so far that even have a five-year strategy. So our committee last year last year launched our MGA medical strategy to showcase how we want to work in this way, showing that we are aware that there are all these other associations. We need them, particularly, I'll mention the International Society for Tree Printing Technologies in Hospitals is very long. But basically, for me, I see them as convening and shaping like guidelines which would really be relevant when we go forward in healthcare. And for me, this is like one stakeholder group that is very crucial. Then also seeing that at some point, maybe if someone comes up with another idea. But what I do is I go with an open approach. I'm like, if we are all trying to do things, how about we sit together and do it instead of creating silos? Silos just make our work more difficult. I call it collaboration approach because it's like let's collaborate.

SPEAKER_00 37:15

Collaboration. How does that work? What is a collaboration?

SPEAKER_01 37:18

Basically, I think I got frustrated. Like I go to a lot of events and everybody's like, let's collaborate, let's collaborate. Yes, everybody says that word. Yeah, and like, okay, for me, this is becoming so annoying because it seems like okay, I have to just end my presentation with collaboration. So I was like, the difference between collaboration and collaboration is actually making the action, right? So I go forward and say, hey, I see what you're doing, I contact you. Even if you are in your tower somewhere, I'm like, hey, this is me, I'm Naomi. Let's talk about it. Sometimes I think people are surprised, they're like, what does she want? But I think genuinely I'm interested in understanding what you're doing so I we can shape it, the industry together. So that's why I say it's action rather than just saying I want to collaborate. Yes. And I chase a lot of people. And I'm like, yeah, let's let's let's come together. Let me understand what you're doing, and then how do we fit it in the picture? Maybe we're making that happen. Yeah, it's like some people are annoyed by it, but I think this is at the core because if we create silos, we just end up duplicating efforts and going forward.

SPEAKER_00 38:20

Absolutely. I have seen that I have seen this with my own eyes in the last 10 years for sure. Yeah. Um, yeah, it's very interesting, I guess, a combination of human psychology and economics and everything mixed together. It's definitely a different topic that I probably will elaborate some other time.

Five Year Vision And How To Join

SPEAKER_00 38:36

Now we're approaching the end of this interview, uh, Naomi. You mentioned a five-year plan. Yes. What is your prediction of where medical 3D printing is gonna be in the next five and ten years?

unknown 38:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:48

I'd like to see your crystal ball.

SPEAKER_01 38:50

Wow. Yes. I I still could tell myself that I'm new in the field, I'm still learning, you know. Like I'm I'm I'm very still new. Like I met people now, they've been doing 3D printing for 30 plus 25 years.

SPEAKER_00 39:01

I know.

SPEAKER_01 39:01

So for me, in five years, I would say we are closer to being more in synergy rather than in division. Why do I say that? It's because I do believe people still want to build their own castle, do their own things without understanding that um we have to go forward more by convening. And so in five years for healthcare, I would see that there is more of not just 3D printing stakeholders, but other healthcare stakeholders, because this is also something we need to bridge. So talking to the MedTech Associations, talking to the surgeons and all that, that we are more aligned and saying yes, 3D printing, and hopefully we have at least one or two national studies showing evidence and the 3D printing work. I'm being very, I would say uh humble, maybe one or two, but I hope that it's more. But maybe more, yes, and then we are able to, particularly for Europe, right? Because I do think that there is an opportunity for Europe to be able to show the way that 3D printing works for healthcare. And I would be happy that in 10 years we are all like having like, oh, this was can you remember 10 years ago when we were talking about how do we even make one study to show 3D printing? So, and now they like a doc a patient can go to the hospital and say, I want a 3D printed knee, and this is okay. Not that you have to write a lot of things to convince people. So, this is my vision. And also, so basically, the strategy of MGA for Medical is that we want to accelerate the adoption of 3D printed solutions, intervention in healthcare systems in Europe and beyond, and this would enable the transformation of healthcare. So I would invite people to read it. And also just going into the focus of AFAM, which is also saying that we are bringing this platform that to discuss this and see how we keep pushing it.

SPEAKER_00 40:56

Yeah, EFAM is EHFAM.

SPEAKER_01 40:59

Yes, it's the European Healthcare Forum for Additive Manufacturing.

SPEAKER_00 41:03

Yes. And now if people want to be part of the network, who's the best candidate? Should reach out to you? Who are kind of you think that's going to be super helpful to them?

SPEAKER_01 41:11

So super helpful to them or to ask questions.

SPEAKER_00 41:14

But both. You know, the most valuable connections you want to make next.

SPEAKER_01 41:17

Okay. So I would say my outreach and most valuable connection is I want to talk to med tech companies. I would like to talk to more regulators. I mean, we have engagements with them, but also just trying to also help us shape that. And particularly like the med tech companies that are like, oh, we have done 3D printing, we do it. And I'm like, yes, please, I want to do case studies with you. I want to showcase like how this works. And even if it's anonymous at the beginning, we are happy to explore that, but to tell more the story that it works and how we can shape this better. And for better understanding of what we do, I mean, I'm the best to communicate and we talk together, exchange. We also do have our working groups. We have webinars some of the time. Like working groups is really for active work. So we are seeing the different themes. We have broken them down down into three clusters for topics, which is MedTech and Innovation, Pharma and Binting, and hospitals and point of care. So if you're interested in this uh stream of work, obviously that would be an interesting way to commit again.

SPEAKER_00 42:16

That's a real work. That's you you actually need to commit real hours to these working groups. Yeah. Not just a simple word of collaboration.

SPEAKER_01 42:26

Collaboration. And I mean we do have amazing team leads and working group leads that are experts in the field and they also know how valuable time is, so they don't bore you with boring stuff. They make it very systematic that you are committing effectively.

SPEAKER_00 42:41

Yeah, that's wonderful.

Closing Thanks And Full Disclaimer

SPEAKER_00 42:43

Thank you so much, Naomi, for joining us. I will leave your contact information or how to reach you in our show notes, and I hope to speak with you soon again.

SPEAKER_01 42:53

Yes, uh, thank you so much, Jenny.

SPEAKER_00 42:55

This podcast is for educational and informational purposes only. The views expressed do not constitute medical or financial advice. The technologies and procedures discussed may not be commercially available or suitable for every case. Always consult with a licensed professional.