Episode #98 | Meeting the Bioprinting Vascular Challenge: VoxCell CEO Dr. Karolina Valente

In this episode, Dr. Karolina Valente, Founder and CEO of VoxCell BioInnovation, discusses her journey in biotechnology, focusing on 3D bioprinting and its impact on cancer research and drug discovery. She shares insights into her leadership at VoxCell, the company's growth, and the accolades it has received. Dr. Valente also talks about the importance of partnerships, the future of biotechnology, and her personal experiences that drive her passion for innovation.

Questions answered:

• How did Karolina first get involved with entrepreneurship and founding VoxCell BioInnovation?
• What was it like to start a career across multiple continents? (From Brazil to Canada)
• How to switch the hat from a scientist to a company founder?
• What were some of the early milestones in the VoxCell journey that were impactful to the company today?
• What is the core technology of the 3D bioprinting platform at VoxCell?
• How does VoxCell’s technology address the Vascular Challenge in cancer research?
• What kind of data do you provide in preclinical studies, and how does it compare to animal models?
• How does Karolina navigate and build company culture at VoxCell?
• What advice does Karolina have for young entrepreneurs and students in school?

See full show notes, links, and resources.

Chapters

• 0:00 Overview of Dr. Valente's journey and the founding of VoxCell BioInnovation
• 9:05 The Tech: Printer, Inks, And Software
• 18:30 Human Models Vs Animal Models
• 26:10 Microfluidics, Flow, And Imaging
• 32:40 Data Outputs And Use Cases
• 40:05 Proving Translation With Partners
• 47:00 Policy Shifts And NAMS Momentum
• 55:20 Vision, AI Synergy, And Roadmap
• 1:03:00 Competition, Community, And Market Fit

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:00

Hi there, this is your host, Jenny Chen. Welcome to the Laddest Podcast episode number 98. Today, I had the pleasure of chatting with Carolina Valente, who is the co-founder and CEO of Voxcel Bioinnovation, a Vancouver-based biotechnology startup focusing on using 3D bioprinting and tissue engineering to accelerate cancer therapy and drug discovery. Enjoy. Please listen to the disclaimer at the end of this podcast. Good morning, good morning. Welcome to the pod.

SPEAKER_00: 0:36

Thank you, Jenny. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01: 0:39

So, Carolina, I have known you for how many years now? I don't know. Five, six, going to six almost, yeah. I felt like I have known you ever since you were born, quote unquote.

SPEAKER_00: 0:52

Because I remember basically born with this new life of entrepreneurship. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 0:59

I remember the first time we had a Zoom call, uh, because we first met virtually, I think it was during the pandemic or something like that.

SPEAKER_00: 1:06

It was 2020, yeah, 2020. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09

And you had a big poster behind you that has your company name voxel behind you. And and that was, I have to say, a very thoughtful, you know, a way of branding yourself without any marketing budget, which is great.

SPEAKER_00: 1:25

And I remember, I remember that poster. Uh that was one of our because when the company got incorporated, we had some support from a local, um, it's called an innovation center here in Victoria, and they gave us initial support to even pay for our incorporation papers. So they were the ones um that actually made that poster for me. And I remember that poster being so low resolution that the logo was like very pixelated. So I would keep I would keep very, very behind my screen. So people would see from behind from like fat far and it would look good. But yes.

SPEAKER_01: 2:04

That is funny. Yeah, so for people who don't really know Voxel really well, uh, Voxel's whole name is Voxel Bioinnovation. Um, and obviously the founder, you, Carolina, and your co-founders, why don't you talk a little bit about the company and then introduce yourself a little bit?

SPEAKER_00: 2:26

Um, absolutely. So my name is Carolina, and I was born originally in Brazil. So uh I have my background is actually in chemical engineering. Um, and then from Brazil, I moved to Portugal to do my master's in chemical engineering, and that was the first time that I touched this interdisciplinary field, which is biomedical engineering. So I was really doing um membranes for blood oxygenators. That's what my master's was of like making synthetizing new membranes for ECMO machines. And then when during my master's, um I had I saw a talk from someone from a professor here from Canada, and I thought, oh, that sounds great. So came to Canada to really explore biomedical engineering and mechanical engineering. And during my PhD, I was really my goal was to understand how cancer worked from a mechanical standpoint. Um, and I was using real biopsy samples from the hospital here, and I was taking those samples home, and they would be falling apart. They were very hard to get. And I thought there has to be a way to do this artificially. So I would say my last year of my PhD was my first brilliant idea on how to create Voxel, and I finished my PhD and incorporated Voxel a week later with the goal to really create these uh tissues artificially to study drugs and study therapies in a more efficient way.

SPEAKER_01: 4:00

Now, when did the um the switch turn on from being a scientist to funding a company? That that is not I mean, we have a lot of PhDs in the world, and most people don't form a company.

SPEAKER_00: 4:16

I know, and and I and I still I am a professor at the same time that I am the CEO, so I still have this what I what I like to say, this dual life, and I still have the academic mindset, and then I'm operating the company with that business and the commercialization head mindset. And I think I don't think there is a switch. I think I've been I have been able to efficiently operate in both areas, but the business side had to really um the knowledge had to increase considerably and very fast in the beginning. And the way that I did that was really getting involved with incubators, accelerators, and really talking to anyone that was willing to sit with me and give me some advice. And advice it's not always easy to hear, it's not always friendly. Um, and in the beginning, when we started Voxel, the goal was actually to sell printers. And I remember that was from yeah, that was the goal, and um was to not to create the tissues and this pivoting that we have been doing right now on selling the product, not selling the machine. The goal was always to create tissues, but by selling the machine. So, and I remember one of my initial conversations that was six months in when someone said that's not a very good idea, and that was a tough advice and walked me through the entire process. And sometimes advice is tough, but it's necessary, and it's what got us here, so it definitely makes a difference.

SPEAKER_01: 5:46

I think I remember that actually. I remember those conversations. I was thinking in my head as well. And the funny thing is, you know, I was given advice many years ago. Um, and I I should have listened, is do not give anybody else advice because nobody really wants your advice. That's actually true. But it's rare for people who are truly open to advice and seeking out because a lot of people sometimes people say, I want advice, but not do they really want advice? Probably not, and you offend people on the way. But I'm glad that you were open to these. Um, what are some of the other milestones early uh in your journey that you felt like it was impactful or inspirational?

SPEAKER_00: 6:32

Um, definitely having the community-driven mindset. So I think that makes a big difference, especially where we are here in Canada in VC. Life sciences is growing considerably. It's the fastest growing space in Canada, it's life science, and then VC is number one province on that. And then really taking riding on that wave, really surrounding myself by that community that, as I mentioned, could give me the contacts, could provide me the network that I needed fast. So I think having that mindset of being really, I cannot do this alone. I I that is a lot that I do not know, and being aware of where my limitations are, and just surrounding myself by people that know better than I do in some areas. And don't get me wrong, I did surround myself by people that I thought new things, and it doesn't, they didn't, but the majority really guided me through this process. So I think that community mindset really helped me in the beginning.

SPEAKER_01: 7:37

And yeah, you mentioned that you went through a lot of accelerators and incubators and all kinds of programs. I remember you posting on LinkedIn all the time of different things. I was like, how can you manage? Do you know like how how many did you actually went through? Did you actually keep track of it?

SPEAKER_00: 7:52

I think we went through more than probably six to ten, I would say, something like that. A lot of them. And it was very, it's very interesting, right, Jenny, because you look back of how I don't like to say naive that because I don't think I was naive, but I think how much I did not know and how much I needed to know to get to where we are. And I still don't know a lot. So we're still learning and surrounding ourselves by people that uh can complement uh the lack of skills that we have. Um, but I remember one of the first incubators that we did in the beginning, they had a prize for the best pitch at the end, and this was an incubator from Ontario Ridge. And we were participating as the only BC company, and that it was during COVID time, so that was possible. And the prize was$15,000 Canadian, one five, and we won. And I remember sitting and I remember sitting in my chair and thinking at that point that was so much money, you know what I mean? Like that was so much money that came for free to us. So these nice memories really shape and keeps me grounded on doing this role with Vox Out.

SPEAKER_01: 9:07

Yeah, I think one wisdom I'm hearing from you is that you are fully aware of the things you don't know that you don't know. And because of that, you're actively seeking out knowledge, and I think that's keeping that curiosity really is very important. Um sorry. Now let's pivot a little bit to the technology in the company itself. Um, tell us a little bit about the core technology of the 3D bioprinting platform.

SPEAKER_00: 9:34

Yes, of course. So Voxel has what I call three pieces of the puzzle that come together to create our tissue models. One is our very high resolution bioprinter. So we are using, we take bioprinting, a regular bioprinter, and then we put it very, very high resolution. We combine that with our inks. So I like to call our inks as our bioprinters cartridge. So, similar to a printer, you have a home, you buy a cartridge, that's what our ink is. So the ink is the cartridge for our printer. And then the third piece of the puzzle is our software that is what creates the 3D structures that we developed and creates the blood vessel structure. What we have as a combination of these three processes a tissue that is 3D representation, so it's a representation of a human tissue that displays a complex blood vessel network. And although the technology is very complex, the idea is very simple. Can we use that little piece of tissue and inject drugs the same way that drugs are injected in your body through the blood vessels? So, can we use those samples to track how drugs move through the blood vessel and interact with the disease? And that's the idea behind voxel technology.

SPEAKER_01: 10:47

And which part of this system is for sale?

SPEAKER_00: 10:52

The tissue itself. So, right now, what we do is really we focus on putting vasculature at the center of our technology. The tissues are produced in-house, and the tissues can be um commercialized directly to different institutions or different research centers or pharmaceutical companies, but we can also run the services in-house. So if you have a drug and you have results and you don't want to go through onboarding a new technology, for example, you just want your results, you can send us the drug and we'll run the entire service for you. So, with us, you're gonna get information of efficacy. That means does that drug actually work? And does that kill the cells that you're targeted to? And then, second, you're also gonna get information on vascular toxicity. Is that drug toxic to the endothelial line or to the blood vessel itself? And of course, you're gonna get information on distribution of that drug throughout the entire tissue, and if that drug is permeating throughout the tissue. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 11:57

Yeah, and also I want to clarify you know, the uh clinical versus preclinical studies and what role this is playing, and what role your product is playing on this complex journey of a drug discovery process. Um you are in the pre-clinical phase, you're focusing on that, which is typically when animal studies are done to make sure it is at least safe in something that's live. I mean, how are you guys superior than the current existing models?

SPEAKER_00: 12:28

Absolutely. So exactly. We play in the pre-clinical space, and we are a technology that is very, very high resolution. We do have high throughput. Um, what makes us different than everything that is out there is the vasculature, is the blood vessel. It's really putting the blood vessel at the center of the technology to have um additional information earlier on and the ability to detect that failure, and that's early signs of failure earlier in the drug development pipeline. And the beauty of our platform is we are using human cells. So this is human biology. This is not mice biology, this is really human biology. So, in terms of translation, the expectation is higher translation here. So, with the new shift in this field in terms of reducing animal models and getting to a point where we are having now we are seeing the FDA coming out with plans of phasing out of animal models in different types of therapeutic routes. Voxel has these in mind. The goal here is can we give information to researchers, to pharmaceutical companies, to CROs earlier on to have a better to decrease this high attrition rate and to be able to detect that failure earlier on before you get to animal models, with the goal to also reduce the use of animal models.

SPEAKER_01: 13:50

Now, I have to, I mean, we we both know that human tissues are complex, especially if it's in a human body, is a lot more complex than a model or any any model that we have for pre preclinical studies. Um, and and you focus on one critical factor, which is vascularization. And there are also like a lot of other uh other things that you don't cover, like immunology, maybe um inflammatory process, you know, that's related and stuff like that. Like how much a percent you can you guess that you can cover in terms of okay, so this drug is gonna fail, the like the probability of a drug that's gonna fail clinical.

SPEAKER_00: 14:34

Yeah, hard to say that. And that's the that's the percentage that we are looking for here. It's the it's what's translation. Basically, the what the question is, is what's the percentage of translation that we can guarantee with this platform? And the truth is, um, we don't know yet. What I what I would say is although we are putting vasculature at the center, that vasculature, because we have the software and we have full control of the software, and now we are introducing machine learning to really enhance this vessel generation creation and really introducing human data and animal data through partnerships right now that we are creating. Um, but because we own that software and we own the knowledge behind, we can really force these tissues to have, for example, vessels that are inflamed. We can force these tissues to have hypoxic area that on the other way it wouldn't be very difficult to mimic in any other scenario, right? So this is the complexity that we are going with the vasculature. And in addition to that, what we are doing combination is really focus on multicellular structures. As you said, the whole human body is quite complex. So having, for example, mimicking the cancer with just the cancer and the blood vessel, that's of course is one step towards translation, but we are not quite there yet. So, what we are doing right now, we are adding healthy cells, so we are introducing strombas cells to all the tissues that make sense, and we are also adding right now immune cells. So we have been doing a lot of work with T cells right now, and T cells are introduced through the blood vessels and are extravagating from the blood vessels into the disease area. So we have been introducing this um with that goal of multicellular components with the ultimate goal of getting as close as possible to that complexity um of the human body.

SPEAKER_01: 16:23

You know, as much as I've seen your presentation so many times over the years, I still have like gaps of knowledge. Absolutely. Um I remember um you know very visually um impactful was this really complex vascular system. And also you've shown the digital model, how the perfusion happens through the model. Yeah, how is is this a microfluidic chips that has cells lined up lined up? Where did the where did the cancer go? Where are the cancer cells?

SPEAKER_00: 16:53

Yeah, yes, absolutely. So um it is a microfluidic device. So I so you imagine a microfluidic channel that it's empty, fully empty in the beginning, just a full channel, simple channel. What we come is we take our bio ink that's mixed with our cells already there, we inject in the channels that get loaded into our printer. Our printer then polymerizes the ink, so the ink goes from a liquid into a gel once inside of the microflux. Inside everything is done inside, everything is done fully sterile, and everything's done with cells. Um, so we have we spend a lot of time controlling the viability of this process um and optimizing for different cell lines. So and so after the printing process is done, the vasculature is printed as a hollow structure. So you have your entire 3D tissue with your cancer cells, your stroma cells, and your vasculature is hollow at that point. So you take out from the printer, wash everything that is non-cross-linkable, that didn't cross-link, sorry. Um, so you remove anything, and then you come with endothelial cells. Endothelial cells are then injected into the vasculature, and then they seed because they love to really form that lumen around um cylindrical structure. So then they seed. So after a few days, this tissue is then ready for us to do QA, QC. We then establish what that baseline in terms of permeability through the vasculature is. So we have a baseline, we track vascular toxicity, so make sure again we are operating under the baseline before we or ship that sample or start testing someone's drug in that sample. Does that make more sense?

SPEAKER_01: 18:33

Yeah, I just want to clarify in terms of the um caliber, the the microfluidic channels are actually much, much larger than the tumor final print, right? Because you have two photon laser-based.

SPEAKER_00: 18:46

Yeah, so our structure, yeah, our structures are in the in the millimeter cubic uh scale. Our microfluidic is in that scale too, Jenny. And on top of that, I think where you're trying to get is if the blood vessel is the important part in here, does flow go through the vasculature instead of just floating everything around and having the overwhelming, which would mimic almost dipping this in a in a well-plated full of cell media, basically. Yeah, yeah. So what we do is what we do is right now because we are operating on them using microfluidic plates that are uh offered and commercially available. So we have a partnership with PBD. So we use those plates, but we're also creating our own plates to fit the size a little bit better. But what we do, we we have something that is called um flow guides that guide the flow. And so it's uh it's a it's a pattern that we create in the entrance of our channel. So that guides the flow when you're injecting the cell media, the serum, your drug directly into the vasculature. So what we are guaranteeing right now is at least 75% of the flow is going through the vasculature of the tissue, and we have some flow around which we want that too, because the flow around is what we would be mimicking that being hydr in a hydrated state, too, having blood vessels around. So that's how we kind of are um optimizing this. So I hope that answers your question. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 20:10

Yeah, certainly. And uh you said you're gonna direct print onto the microfluidic. That means the microfluidic chip that you select has to have certain transparency and properties yourself.

SPEAKER_00: 20:19

Yeah, but that's for everything that we do. So the entire system, um, the plate, the tissue, everything is fully optically clear. And what the beauty of that, the bio ink, which is also again something that we spend a lot of time developing to make sure it's optically clear, the beauty of that is you can then fit these tissues in any type of lab you have. You're not worried about the microscope being, you know, illumination from the bottom, from the top, confocal, it doesn't matter. The tissue is fully optically clear in a fully optically clear window. So you can use that in any type of scenario you want. Um something, something that we are doing now in Q4, and hopefully will be done by the end of the year or beginning of next year, is um we are now making these tissues removable so people can do sectioning um and just and just like a biopsy sample, right? So you would section. That would be amazing. Yeah, yeah. So so this we are ready instituting that because we have been dealing now with skin um models. So we are migrating away from the oncology space, and with that focus of vasculature being the center of the technology, which again was another pivoting before it was really oncology, and right now is vasculature plays a role in a lot of other things, is putting us in a skinny space. And the skin space is interesting because when I started this company, I was really focused on let's inject the drugs through the vasculature, but the skinny space you inject on top, and you need to know if it's reaching the vasculature. So we are doing exactly the other way around. So we have an atopical application, and then we are still tracking what is happening in the vasculature and seeing if the drug is going from diffusing from surface to the bottom, which is an again a use of vasculature but in an indirect way, which is pretty fascinating too.

SPEAKER_01: 22:14

Yeah, uh totally. And you mentioned that you actually internally generate uh pre-clinical data for companies if they want to. What kind of data do you provide? Is this completely identical to the typical animal lab models um reports as well?

SPEAKER_00: 22:33

I I would say similar. What people get in animal models and we are not able to replace, and no one is at this point, is the admin profiles, right? So when the drug is interacting with the heart, when the drug is interacting with uh the excretion system, all of that we can't process. What we can provide information now is on efficacy. Does that drug work? What is the initial concentration required for that drug work? Um, so we do IC50 measurements, EC50 measurements, uh, and we have that drug profile with concentration, so you know how much concentration of that drug needs for this specific tissue, and then we can try to extrapolate from there, and then you have an idea if that concentration is even viable. Um, and then we also have information which is very important on vascular toxicity, that is how that drug is interacting with the endothelial lining and moving from there. Is it even extravagating? And that's really important for like TCRT to T cell um type of therapies because that is active extravasation through the blood vessel. It's not through diffusion, it's not it's active extravasation. So we are able to mimic and see that interaction, and also see if it's disrupting the endothelial lining. So that is something that um it can only be seen in animal model studies, or even worse, that is sometimes it passes animal models and then it's seeing vascular toxicity in people. So, what we want is to illustrate the vascular toxicity earlier on in our platform. And we have been doing this right now with different collaborators. So, this type of um models is what we are creating for people. Efficacy, vascular toxicity, being able to measure distribution and permeation of that drug concentration, and also because the tissue is viable for three weeks, Jenny, which is another huge advantage compared to what is out there, we are also able to do combination studies. So, for example, if you're doing hormonotherapy with uh chemotherapy, so we can do this type of long-term studies and combinational studies too.

SPEAKER_01: 24:46

So it sounds like um, I don't know if you can make the claim that your model is more superior than the animal model, at least in terms of vascular toxicity evaluation.

SPEAKER_00: 24:58

Yes, that's the that's what we are aiming for.

SPEAKER_01: 25:01

Have you done any other uh comparison in terms of you know the data you generated compared to existing animal models? Because that's what we're really trying to replace here.

SPEAKER_00: 25:11

Yes, so we we I spend a lot of time, you know, the company is five years right now, and I spend a lot of time on this one word that's in my mind the whole time that is translation. Translation, right? So, how do we prove translation? How do we prove the value of this technology? And I think we are closer now than ever. And I think right now we figure out a way to do that. And the way that we are doing that is with third-party validation. So we have current customers that have animal model data and they have clinical data, and we are using their drugs in our tissue. So our goal right now is forget about voxel comparing with what is out there. We are using other people's data, like we are using real drugs that are trying to go to the market to prove that translation. So that's what I thought this year was um the you know, the nice pivot that is putting us into the right track to put to prove this with an external partner, as someone, you know, a real pharmaceutical company. So these had implications in other um aspects of the company too. It had implications on, for example, we were getting ready to do a larger round, and right now we are doing a smaller round to give us time to get that very solid data with these customers that we have right now. So then we go for a larger round with a much better position. So it it's it's interesting to also see for people listening to this podcast, is also see how some decisions, which sometimes they seem to be purely scientifical, they do have other implications throughout the entire company.

SPEAKER_01: 26:49

Right. I mean, your goal is not to prove science, your goal is also to maintain and grow the company, which is a different metric for most scientists and to make an impact.

SPEAKER_00: 27:02

And to make an impact, that's it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 27:04

And I mean, that more than 90 or maybe even 95% of the scientific discoveries that we have these days, you know, whatever that you see in PubMed that's published cannot be commercially translatable, which means it won't impact your life or my life. So I mean, I don't think it's a meaningless work, I think it's still meaningful uh to have regular and a lot of these different kinds of scientific discoveries.

SPEAKER_02: 27:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 27:29

But from if you know what how what it can do for you and I in the next three to five years, probably nothing.

SPEAKER_00: 27:37

It's it's limited, and I think this is also one of the challenges with you know, even this 3D bioprinting space that is you see different groups working in different niche areas, and it's it's there is no regulation, not much regulation right now on this, and it's hard to see how that would really translate to impacting people directly. So I'm thinking about that, you know, how the future is shaping too. I think the important part is also thinking about the future, in my opinion, is fully, fully interdisciplinary. There is no more, you know, unique field that is operating individually. And I think the future of bioprinting right now, for example, Voxel is doing 2PP, but that's very small. That's we will not be able to replace organs with this technology. We are not gonna be able to replace full animals with this technology. We need support from other people that have knowledge in these larger areas, larger bioprinting applications, and really thinking about that translation with from a biologist standpoint. So, this is what I believe the future of this field is and how we're gonna be able to see the impact um more meaningfully.

SPEAKER_01: 28:49

Yeah, very well say said. And also you mentioned in uh just just now about partnerships. And uh and and you know, I've been hearing this. Okay, I I am as an amateur when I entered the space, I would say six, seven years ago, uh probably even worse than you, is in the pharmaceutical industry, partnership is such an important word. And so why don't you unpack this a little bit? And how did you learn how to do these partnerships and what kind of partnerships are valuable to you or have been valuable to you?

SPEAKER_00: 29:24

Exactly. So the way that Voxel engages is what we call right now is collaborations and partnerships. That's our goal, that's our path right now, at least for this quarter and the next quarter, is aligning ourselves with other impactful companies out there that already, as I said, have some data on animal and clinical trials, and they want to test their drugs with us. So if we think about like putting our commercial head, that that is not a very financial beneficial beginning because at this point you are doing a lot of in kind. You're also doing Because what you need is that data. And the truth is, the data here, the value of data, it's we can't put a price. The value of data of having a partner trusting you on their own drug, shipping you their drug, and being able to sit with you and walk through their data and try to compare and prove that translation, with again the ultimate goal of creating an impact for both companies, for all the pipelines that the client is producing to that has no value. So we have been that has a massive value. So we have been navigating this year journey by really talking to everyone and really going to every single conversation very well prepared. So when we go to talk to a big farmer, we already know what are the therapeutic areas they're interested in. We developed 3D CAD models to show how the tissues would look like if they were to engage with us. And it's all um it's all proposed models, but what we are trying to do here is an important thing: connecting the dot for the client. In an area in which there is so many of these new technologies, organs on a chip, organoids, spheroids, like everyone is coming out with something new. My goal and my role is to connect the dots for the client. You give me the problem, I'll give you the solution. And meanwhile, my entire conversation with them is trying to get to that problem part and trying to say how Voxel can connect the dots. So I think really sometimes um founders go to these conversations with one back fits all. It does not. People only care for their problem, they don't care what other problems you're solving, they only care how you're gonna solve their problem. So make that make them see that faster.

SPEAKER_01: 31:50

Yeah. You know, this is the second time in a row I hear this. You gotta customize your sales pitch to every single person you talk to. It's not one size fit all. So it was really I I think you have graduated, Carolina, um of being the uh the best salesperson. Um, I literally just had the exact same conversation, and it was unprompted. Like, you gotta customize your conversation. You cannot just pitch as if you're pitching the robots, you know. That is totally true.

SPEAKER_00: 32:24

But I will I will add what type of collaborations we are looking for, it's people here that are in this and looking forward to this innovative space, and really with their mindset of how can we reduce animal models and how can we have meaningful information earlier on with a human platform. And so if you want to have information on efficacy, vascular toxicity, and using a model that is really like a biopsy sample, get in touch with us and we'll make this possible.

SPEAKER_01: 32:54

Yeah, one question I have uh in my mind is all these um you know government announcements about you know from EU started decades ago to then FDA, the modern modernization act. Is that right? That's the that's the act. And then and then recently you also mentioned 3R collaborative. That is in Brazil, right?

SPEAKER_00: 33:15

Well, the 3Rs, they had a 3Rs conference in Brazil, but 3Rs is a group, it's all over the world. And I think it actually, and it's I think actually it started in in Europe. So um, but it's it's the idea of replacement, reduction, refinement use of animal model. So it's a community of people that are working in this type of technology, like Voxel or researchers that are really um wanting to decrease animal model. So that's community in which we um we see people from organoids, we see people from spheroids, everyone in this new class that is called NEMS that stands for new approach methodologies, which is new methodologies aiming to reduce animal model testing.

SPEAKER_01: 33:59

My question is first of all, the government already put their stance there, says don't use animal models, because I I've heard many, many reasons, and one of the most important ones to me is it doesn't work very well. It doesn't work, there's no translation. Translation is very poor, yeah. So, but it's not illegal still because they really have no other way to do things nowadays. So, okay, the policymaker says, Okay, you can't do this, but the the drug developers, like, we we got no other ways of figuring things out. How how how does it even translate? Is this just a gesturing from the policymaker without any support to the community to say, okay, now we can give you some support to achieve that goal?

SPEAKER_00: 34:42

I think I think let's let's start unpacking animal models. Gold standard for the longest time, right? It still is the gold standard, it still is. Let's not lie about it. Still is the gold standard translation, especially in oncology, less than eight percent. So it doesn't make sense. It's really bad.

SPEAKER_01: 35:01

Not even 50%.

SPEAKER_00: 35:02

No, it's eight. And so it's really bad. So what what FDA, EMA, the they're creating plans to phase out animal mods, and I think where you're trying to maybe connect the dots here is yeah, there is a plan, but there is no action. There is a plan without anything tangible, right? So, where we are seeing is the plan is the starting point, and we have been seeing a lot more traction this year for Voxel because of this announcement, especially this year when they came with uh phasing out animal animal models for monoclonal antibodies. Um so we're seeing a lot of more traction. So I think you're right, there is no action right now. But what this is doing, Jenny, is people need to get on it now. If they're gonna go and start really trying to onboard a new technology, onboard a new methodology, right? And try to prove translation, they need to get on it now. So CROs are starting to really take into consideration this uh new methodology approaches, right? Okay. The new approach methodologies, NAMS community, um, Charles River, especially, like they have a whole group right now that is really interviewing all these companies and trying to learn more about this new approach methodology. So I think it's there is no solid, tangible action, but it's creating a shift in mentality and you know, change is hard. So a shift in mentality is already getting us the conversations and it's already getting us the ability to talk about Voxel.

SPEAKER_01: 36:33

Right, just because they made an announcement, it doesn't mean it's illegal to use animal models anyway.

SPEAKER_00: 36:37

It's not illegal, no, it's not illegal. It's still gold standard, yeah. It's still the gold standard, but the plan is to phase out, and then the EMA has um they are much more serious. So EMA is the European community, right? The European division, similar to the FDA. So they are really trying to really stop animal models eventually. So thinking about that overnight, pharma is changing overnight. So they are trying to get on to the new technologies now. So this is the moment to learn. This is the moment to get in in touch with people developing these alternative approaches.

SPEAKER_01: 37:13

Sorry to just kind of um staying on this topic because it's I just can't wait. I cannot fill the gap in my mind. It's like, okay, the policymaker says ideally we want this to happen, but not providing any kind of financial or legal backing uh for the process is kind of mind-boggling. Like it's almost like I want to heal all human beings under the sun, but I am not giving out a dime for the process. Like, I'm not sure how that works. Did the admin to the government, especially for Europe, who has been on this for decades, um provide any funding specifically for this topic? I mean, to put money behind their words and something like that. I'm just curious.

SPEAKER_00: 37:55

Oh, there are definitely new grants. There are definitely a lot more grants coming up in this area. We see a lot, we see a lot of like um, especially Johnson and Johnson, they have these challenges that's a lot of them on its own new approach methodologies right now. And as I mentioned, Charles River has their own group. The group is called A Map, and I and I don't really remember what stands for. Uh, let me Google here very quickly.

SPEAKER_01: 38:21

We we can figure out later and put it in the show notes.

SPEAKER_00: 38:24

Alternative methods advancement project, which is really sticking to finding the alternative approaches. So we are seeing a lot more traction and we are seeing more grants in terms of funding in the US, hard for me to speak on that, but in Canada, we are seeing a lot more investment in in life sciences, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_01: 38:44

Yeah, I do think that changing mindset itself helps. Absolutely, yeah. Because if something hasn't worked for I could make centuries or maybe even, yeah, then we should, and with all the new technologies, we should look for a new ways of doing things. And yeah, I agree, even though even though things are still slowing for you guys, and change is hard, and change is hard, right?

SPEAKER_00: 39:09

So there is a there is also that educational piece in here that is important. So it's also something that is important for our only investors to recognize that it there has never been a better moment to be investing in this type of technology. There has never been a better moment for me to be working on this type of technologies, but as you mentioned, it's a plan, it's not an there are no actions yet. So these movements are still gonna take time and um and really absorbing the technology is gonna be slowly, so patience is required here too.

SPEAKER_01: 39:43

Um, you mentioned that company, your company is kind of um getting into new areas now. What is your immediate future for Voxel?

SPEAKER_00: 39:53

Our immediate future for Voxel 2026. Our goal is two, two main goals. One, translation with a third party. That's it, proving that translational piece with a third party. So we have contracts right now, they are fully signed, that are they have already started projects, so that's proving the translation. And then the second piece is really focusing on commercialization and really organizing this company from a business and a corporate development standpoint to really focus on that pipeline. So now that we prove translation, let's grow this company and let's really focus on that revenue piece and then um commercialization.

SPEAKER_01: 40:35

And as you know, nowadays I would say biotech industry as a whole is experiencing quote unquote winter. Um, either big pharma or small pharma or biotech companies are all experiencing that. I would say globally, I was just in Asia, it's the same thing over there, and everybody was putting money in AI, in computing. Um, can you guys benefit from this other revolution elsewhere?

SPEAKER_00: 41:03

Um absolutely. So, we as I mentioned, we are implementing some machine learning in our software, our software right now. It takes physiological constraints, so it takes parameters that we define at a certain range to create the best vasculature. So, putting machine learning and introducing some of the animal data that we are dealing with right now, and some of the human data will make it a little bit smarter and will make it better and make it more realistic. The way that I see this AI revolution, this what we call in our area in the pre-clinical area, we call this in silical, that is that simulation. That is there. So we are in vitro, animal models are in vivo, and then the AI sit on the in silical, that is how we call that area. I see them as complementary technology. So I see them as, as you said, a new revolutionary way to mimic molecules and to mimic interaction of molecules with proteins with the human body, but I see that the has the translational piece is big for them either, right? So it's also very, it's also too very big for them. So being able to prove that translational piece is also gonna be very important. So that's where Voxel can complement this type of platforms. They don't need to go to monolayers, they come directly to us from that molecule. We can then test in our platform is a in already in a human-like scenario. So they come as our potential clients too. That's what I was gonna say.

SPEAKER_01: 42:30

That's like a huge area of partnerships you can reach out for. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, because they're getting a lot of funding for these uh AI, AI generated just drug discovery pipelines. They have to have some cellular evidence that it's gonna go from computer to human right away.

SPEAKER_00: 42:50

No, no, no, and I think what is interesting is uh it would be good to get to a point where um we would have you know a full pipeline, right? So you go from in silico, then you have like what would be your new gold standard for in vitro, what would be your new gold standard for in vivo? Is there even a gold standard or are we eliminating this and going to a small pool of candidates on a phase one clinical trial with a smaller group of people? So it would be good to have something that would become a little bit more templated um and um that people would recognize a little bit more easily.

SPEAKER_01: 43:25

Yeah, fantastic. Now we talked about 2026. What about a little bit longer horizon, three to five years?

SPEAKER_00: 43:32

So vasculature as the focus, moving away from oncology right now and going through different types of um disease modeling and healthy model modeling to really proving that translation. And I want to get to a point where, as you mentioned, the holy grail for me has always been can we actually make an impact to patients? I started this company. Um, well, I started with breast cancer during my PhD because my mom had breast cancer and she actually passed last year from a thank you. Um, and um, and my goal was always to make an impact to patients. How do we make an impact to people? So I want to get to a point which we are working towards that personally derived space. Can we make patient samples? Can we work in that personalized space, creating something that will have been more impactful directly to the patients? And we started working not just with pharmaceutical companies and CROs, but also with research centers, with hospitals, with health organizations, right? And being able to create these patient-derived samples. And we are doing this right now. We have a partnership with a group in Germany in which we are testing some of their therapies, and we are grateful enough that we are testing patient-derived samples. So we are already putting us in this personalized space, but really evolving to how we create a business model that works for hospitals, too. So that is the piece that I haven't really uh cracked. But we are also one step at a time, focus is very important because we don't want to spread ourselves thin, as you said, especially in the current economy, right? Where money is not flowing, we're being very conservative. But every RD project and every partnership that we take right now, Jenny, has been with the mindset of how can we help the client, but also how can we help us? And how can we help us to the next stage of this company? How that data, how can I leverage that data beyond this client to also continue working with this client, but also to be able to gather other clients or to put Voxel into a brand new space that will open new doors. So a lot of these partnerships are now have been with this mindset.

SPEAKER_01: 45:49

And you have some recent news from partnerships, and you want to just make a quick announcement for those?

SPEAKER_00: 45:55

I do. I actually have two news. One of them is we have just closed the deal, which is funded by IREP. We have closed the deal with stem cell technologies. So stem cell technologies and yes, it's a very big private company here in Vancouver, BC. Um, they have more than 2,000 employees, they have been a global leader in the cell culture space, and they are developing um um endothelial cells that are primary derived endothelial cells. So we are going to be testing those endothelial cells in our platform, and then being able to provide now, see being able to recognize how those endothelial cells really that are more human-like, uh, how they fit in our tissue, how they behave in our tissue, and being able to provide a tissue that is even more human-like uh than ever.

SPEAKER_01: 46:48

And what's in for stem cell technologies to do this monitor?

SPEAKER_00: 46:52

For for them, it's also being able to really generate this data, again, thinking on that data and that piece of data that is um that can be tied to marketing materials, but also can be tied to really focus on this new approach methodologies, new fields that is incorporating there to these cell lines in something that is now 3D. Makes sense. So really incorporating those endothelioprogenital cells into this 3D environment and getting one more step closer to this human-like scenario. And the second piece, and this is so the stem cell collaboration that has been um going around for a few days, but the second piece, and that's new as of today. Voxel has a full new website that is voxel.com. We have a new name, we have a new logo, so we have dropped the bioinnovation. We're just calling ourselves Voxel now. Yes. Um, we have we have a new logo and we have a brand new website where all the partnerships um are disclosed there, and then you guys can take a look. So voxel.com has just got released today, and I waited until today to get released at the same time as this recording, Jenny.

SPEAKER_01: 48:03

Well, this recording is not gonna be out for another week. I'm sorry. Gonna talk to my intern about this. Um but but maybe by then uh you will have no errors on the website.

SPEAKER_00: 48:17

Absolutely, absolutely. At least everyone has checked and we made any recommend any changes recommended. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 48:25

I have to say, I like the the new name better because it's so much easier. Yes, voxel, that's it. I mean, who else is called voxel? Nobody else. I know, yeah. And it do you know where the voxel name comes from? Well, voxel, it makes sense of the volume, right? It's like uh pixel.

SPEAKER_00: 48:40

Yeah, so actually, yeah, that is true, but the actual term voxel, which is V-O-X-E-L, it's what what the a laser does in a sample, in that focal point that a laser, when it's going to cross-link a sample, that focal point is called a voxel. And that focal point is our entire resolution, it lies in that tiny spot. So then we put a twist. So that's where the name comes from. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 49:06

Speaking of which, let's take let's play a mental game. Um imagine that you are super, super well funded, not not scrappy little startup. Now you have like, I don't know, a hundred million dollars. So funding is not an issue. What would you do with that money right now? Um a couple of things.

SPEAKER_00: 49:26

Um by a boat, no. The money, the company needs the money. So we we do we our partnerships have been right now, Europe and North America. Again, let's think about FDA, EMA, that's where the changes are, right? So that's the our where our current base is going to be. So we need to move a little bit our way off Canada and being able to have subsidiary in these areas too. Having subsidiaries in these areas will really allow us to export tissues and to do this service agreement much more easily than right now getting samples from Germany, you know, getting samples from Belgium here. So increasing our reach, increasing our global opportunity by having subsidiaries. That's something that I want to do. And of course, we need more printers, we need more senior team members, and we are hiring newer people right now, but really thinking on that possibility of um spreading globally the company. How can this company have this global impact?

SPEAKER_01: 50:27

That's the right answer. So when you have more money, you just want to make more. That's it. And I'm just kidding. No, you're you're trying to be impactful as well, obviously. That's actually I think the ultimate goal that we're trying to achieve. Would you be open to use uh to using other companies' printers? Perhaps. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00: 50:46

Absolutely. And then right now we already so we have cell link printers in-house. We already use cell link printers for some of the projects. Um, um, and um, and then yeah, absolutely. As I said, the future here is interdisciplinary, it's a it's it and it should be. And I don't know if you caught what I said, but the ability of us to print in plates also put us in many other spaces that people listening can think of uh what we can do for them. So that is a lot of things that we can do here. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 51:19

Um, also you're located in Vancouver. Uh Victoria, Victoria, close to Vancouver, yeah. Oh, Victoria. It's part part of British Columbia nonetheless, right? Yes. Okay. Yeah. And and it's hard to amiss that there's another big startup in 3D bioprinting as well, which is aspect. Um, I I don't know aspect as well as you guys, but um, I do want to interview them someday. Good, yeah. Well, how do you feel about them? Uh, are they your direct competitor? You know, who are the other people that you're watching? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 51:53

Yeah, so they so they are not our direct competitors. I actually um I I love the fact that they are here and they are local. They came from UBC, uh, University of British Columbia. The the beauty about having aspect in here in our backyard is the fact that they set up the foundation, right? So they set up that educational piece. My dog is barking. They set up that educational piece that was needed um for really people to understand what bioprinting was and for people to understand what tissue engineering was. So having them here really helped us to communicate the message to investors here, to communicate the message to customers around here much more easily. Um, what they do very well is um Aspect Bioprinter is an extrusion-based printing. So, what they do very well is they can print very large structures that we cannot, right? So they have contracts by now with Novo Nordics, they are doing well, but really with the focus of printing their large structures. On our end, we are not thinking about organ replacement, like they are going on that path of organ replacement. Our goal is really to stay in the preclinical space. This is a path that does not require FDA approval, so it can be definitely very much streamlined in terms of commercialization versus the organ transplantation piece. So, not direct competitors, um, but have definitely helped setting up the foundation needed for us to be now active in this space, and I respect them very much.

SPEAKER_01: 53:25

Yeah, I remember actually went to one of their earlier conferences hosted at University of Victoria, and it has to be University of Victoria, I was in. I'm trying to remember.

SPEAKER_00: 53:35

Yeah, maybe, or even UBC.

SPEAKER_01: 53:37

I think UBC UBC.

SPEAKER_00: 53:39

Yeah, exactly. UBC, yeah. Yeah, they are UBC, they are UBC, uh, and I am at the University of Victoria.

SPEAKER_01: 53:45

Yeah, I see. Okay, yeah. I remember it was a very well-run uh conference where GSK and a bunch of farmers showed up. Um, so they were very early in the pharma talk. So yeah, um, yeah, one of these days, hopefully, um hopefully I can get them on the pod as well. Yeah. Um now we're reaching the end of this podcast, and I always trying to get a little bit personal with you. Uh with our guest is um we we mentioned very briefly that you were born in Brazil and then moved over first, actually, to Portugal. I had no idea you actually made a stop there, but it makes sense because you speak you speak Portuguese fluently.

SPEAKER_00: 54:23

You know, every everyone says that, but you know, Portugal, Portugal, all the classes, everything was in English because it's it's a part of Europe, right? So they have a lot of students shipping around, like moving around, uh shifting around. So the entire university was fully in English, and it was actually my first, I would say, first full introduction to having to figure out everything in English, and then I went from Lisbon to here, did not start home, move it from there to here to Canada.

SPEAKER_01: 54:51

Yeah, so that's where you you had your ESL class or English as a second language class.

SPEAKER_00: 54:57

That is hilarious. I didn't think about that. Exactly. I could write the exams in Portuguese, though. So that was an option there. We could write the exams in Portuguese if you were Portuguese speaking or if you wanted to, but everything else was in English, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 55:12

Now um, let's talk a little bit just about culture transition. I mean, you were in Brazil and then to Europe and then now to Canada. I mean, culture, not just as a life experience, but also building a team that's largely Canadian. Um, how do you understand the differences in culture and then build a different kind of you know, a culture for Voxel in itself and your team?

SPEAKER_00: 55:36

That is that is something that is so valuable, and a lot of people don't speak about that. That is that is the fact that you're growing a team, but that is a fact that you're growing a team with a different cultural background than you have, with different values than you have, and in different, I'm gonna be very blunt in here, different common sense, because common sense is different in different cultures. That is very true, right? It's different. So the assumption, so in the beginning, I went through a lot of assumptions that common sense was the same, that I didn't need to teach certain things. And the truth is you operate according to the people you have. Right now, Voxel is in a much more mature phase. The group of people that we have is completely a completely different shift than when we started, a much more senior group of people, it's a much more mature group of people. So that is a lot less uh handhelding here than we had. But I think it's making sure there are a couple of things in my mind the whole time. One of them is clear is kind, unclear is unkind. It's independent of anyone's background, independent of my background, is message should always be as clear as possible. And that is something that I'm I'm I have to work constantly by being someone from uh English not being my first language. So making sure that my communication is as clear as possible, but their interpretation of what I said is also aligned. So I'm always saying, like, what did you hear? Let's make sure we are always aligned before we move forward. So communication being clear is something that is very important. The second piece, Jenny, is Canada is a very um, it's a very um, it's a very diverse environment. So we are very grateful here to have more than 50% of our teams being immigrants. And I think on a positive sense, what I bring from that immigrant mentality is that it doesn't matter for me where you come from, it doesn't matter your background. I am looking for people that are gonna, you know, wear the shirt with me, swear in tears, and they are gonna grow with me, and they wanna stay and they wanna stick around and they wanna do better. And understand that um being part of a startup, which is something that is very important, it's it's a roller coaster. Some days are great, some days are terrible, and some days are great and terrible in the same day, and it brings some repeat. So aligning, having people that have the same mentality is very, very important. A diverse team with a different background, but at least with the same values and that same mentality that is whatever it takes in this phase.

SPEAKER_01: 58:22

You make your speech makes me want to join your team, I have to say. Oh, you should. I'll carry a little bag for you. I told you every time. I think I told you every time I see you, it's like Carolina, please let me carry your bag.

SPEAKER_00: 58:38

I I know it's too heavy, it's too heavy the whole time.

SPEAKER_01: 58:43

So now that you've been through so much, and I agree with the emotional ups and downs for CEOs in a startup is uncomparable to any other job. And I don't know how you can sleep sometimes. Um, I already have problems sleeping without having problems. What do you have advice for younger people, uh, young entrepreneurs and even students in school right now?

SPEAKER_00: 59:07

Um, I would say for let's start with students in school, you have a good idea, try it out. There has never been a better moment in like entrepreneurship globally to just try having a new company. It's much easier than it was before. It's much easier to raise initial seed money than it was before, especially from grants and other incentives. And um, so I would say go for it. You want to do something, just go for it and try it out. This is the moment. It's a technology area. You can you can check everything online nowadays. You can double check if you have a good idea, but go for it and don't be afraid. For people that are already running their companies and they're starting this tough journey that is going to be biotech, it's be patient. I think patience is something that is very, very important. And the second piece that I Wish I knew from earlier on when I received the advice of oh you can't sell printers, that's so bad. And it's because of this, isn't that? Um, it's not, don't be afraid of pivoting. Pivoting is the beauty of growing a company. You know, your initial prototype is not a product, is a tool, it's a tool for you to go to grow, it's a tool for you to evolve. So, with that mentality, there is pivoting is necessary, and you just need to adjust the narrative. You just adjust the narrative accordingly. And I would say my last piece is resilience. That's it. You rinse and repeat and you do again. And if that is getting tiring and you and if you know it, you just rinse and repeat and do it again. There is no other secret. Some days are gonna be 50 no's, and some days are gonna be 50 yeses, and um you just need to keep pushing. So that's that's my advice.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:58

That's incredible, very wise. And I can I think I can take some of that advice as well. Um, do you consume any kind of media regularly?

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:07

I have I have I have uh three books that I would say I read um one of them, two of them recently. One of them is my all-time favorite book ever. Okay, all time favorite.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:18

All-time favorite first, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:20

The power of habit. Okay, the power of habit is Charles Um De Hung, I think.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:26

I don't know what that's actually just read it this year.

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:29

Yes, it's my favorite book of all times, and um, and it's brilliant. Uh, and every I would say every two to three years I read it again, and because it speaks in a general sense, but also with a scientific terminology, blocks different parts of my brain every time um I read. And then one of them, two that I read recently, one that was useful in my entire life beyond business, it's called Crucial Conversations.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:58

Yeah, I read that too.

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:59

Yeah, and that one is like it's really, really good. And that is for your personal life, for for my teaching life, for everything, being able to have the tough conversations. Um, yes, and then the last one that I got from our lead investor, actually, that gave me this book. Um, and very relevant for Voxel, it's the Challenger Sale. Um, and the Challenger Sale, it's called The Challenger Sale Taking Control of the Customer Conversation. And that book is fascinating because it really talks about products that are so customizable that is not you create and it flies from your shelf because that's what Voxel is doing, right? The tissues are fully customizable, you can change the cell lines, we can do whatever we want. So, how do we bridge that gap to the customer? How do we connect the dots on something that is so customizable that when you present to someone, it's almost like a blank screen. They can have so many possibilities that they don't know where to go. So, this book really explains how to dominate the sales approach in this customizable space. That's one book I haven't read. That sounds fascinating.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:09

Very good book, it's a very good book. Yeah. Thank you so much for the recommendations. And I'd have to say, all the books that you have recommended is something that you have to read several times. Yes. And I have the experience that I've read a bunch of books, but then like scratching my head, it's like, I thought it was very good, but I don't remember what their key points were. Yeah. So I think it's definitely books to on the bookshelf for you to keep to go back to. Those are very, very good recommendations. Thank you so much. Now we are at the real end of this podcast. Do you have any call to action or one-liner you want to conclude?

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:45

I would say the mission for Voxel is really to accelerate therapies, allowing therapies to hit the market sooner into the hands of people who need them. So the call for action is to spread the message on the amazing work that my team is doing here. And really, collaborators' partnerships, if you're listening to us, get in touch with me and go take a look on our new website, voxel.com.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:09

Will do. Thank you so much, Carolina.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:12

I'll see you soon, hopefully in JP Morgan. Yes, absolutely. Looking forward to that.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:17

This podcast is for educational and informational purposes only. The views expressed do not constitute medical or financial advice. The technologies and procedures discussed may not be commercially available or suitable for every case. Always consult with a licensed professional.