The Lattice (Official 3DHEALS Podcast)

Episode #84 | Tuan Tranpham On 3D Printing Mega-Trends

• 3DHEALS • Episode 84

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Tuan Tranpham shares his extraordinary journey from Vietnamese refugee to 3D printing industry leader, offering unique insights on industry evolution, technological innovation, and future trends. His global perspective bridges Eastern and Western manufacturing approaches while highlighting continuous carbon fiber printing opportunities and microfactory development.

  • Vietnamese refugee turned global 3D printing leader
  • 3D printing in 2003, after Z Corp 
  • The Journey: 3D Systems, Desktop Metal, Anisoprint
  • Industry consolidation and integration strategies
  • Carbon fiber 3D printing for aerospace and defense
  • Highlights China’s rapid rise in 3D printing innovation
  • AI, robotics, and AM will enable portable microfactories
  • Built a personal brand on LinkedIn
  • Innovation is key to staying competitive
  • Bravery and generosity in career growth


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About Pitch3D

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the latest episode, number 84. Today we dive into the extraordinary journey of Tuan Chuan-Phan, a true veteran and global thought leader in the world of 3D printing, with over 22 years of experience spanning pioneering companies like Zcorp 3D Systems and Desktop Metal, tuan shared not only his personal story, from being a Vietnamese refugee to US tech executive, but also his unique perspective on the past, present and bold future of additive manufacturing. Enjoy, hey Tuan.

Speaker 2:

You're going to be calling an AI companion and the host Shu-Bang.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, well, make sure that we capture you this time and again. I really appreciate you joining the pod this morning. It's always a pleasure to talk to you, even twice for the same content. So, just for fun, to tell people what happened last week is uh, we did a full an hour and a half recording session and then we realized that we did not record. So that is um, it was a really good conversation.

Speaker 1:

It was a it was a good conversation well, let's, let's rewind and uh talk, talk about uh. You know, I think every time, every time I talk to you, things are always different, but I think for people who don't know you, it's always good to start from the beginning, and I do anticipate multiple podcasts with you in the future to talk about subjects with a more deeper you know, deeper dive in these various subjects. But I think it's always good to have a foundation, to know who you are, where you come from and why you have certain perspectives that you do so. I know you have a really fascinating early career, early life story, so I love to just to hear you to share with us what that story is so I think what's driving is because they have a saying that when you come from nothing, anything is possible, right?

Speaker 2:

So a lot of people don't know this, but at the age of five, at the fall of Saigon in 79, we left by boat. So I'm actually a Vietnamese boat refugee and I lived for six months in a Malaysian refugee camp in 1979. And we were supposed to, my two younger brother and my parents. We were supposed to go to either the US or Australia. Those were the popular choices, but there was a long waiting period and it was tough being 40, 000 on an island that only was supposed to have 4 000 refugees. So we couldn't continue to sustain and the danes were like come to denmark. It's like, where's denmark? It's like it turns out in hindsight after 20, 23 years that for a refugee, denmark is awesome.

Speaker 2:

You live amongst the Vikings, everything is free Education, dental, you pay high tax, but everything is free. And so that was the beginning of my adult growing to become an adult. So I'm very Danish. I don't look it. So I was born in Asia, but I was raised and lived in Europe for 23 years. I still always had this thing about the American dream that I thought that my destiny, I had to go to the US. I left my parents behind and brothers I didn't know how. Who doesn't want to go to America. The company that I worked for in 1999 was doing 10 gigabit serializer de-serializer, so these were microchips at $5,000.

Speaker 1:

It's a semiconductor industry.

Speaker 2:

Back then right, I just want to clarify.

Speaker 1:

You're not always in 3D printing so before 3D printing I was in semiconductor and we got acquired.

Speaker 2:

I was in print number 81 and four months in I was supposed to run Asia because I did that for Intel for four years and we got acquired by Intel for 1.25 billion cash, and this is before the bubble of the summer of 2000. This is March, so it couldn't have been a better timing and that was my ticket. My mentor grew in the ranks and eventually became the GM of Intel Denmark and he said do this, this, this I will prove, and off you go. And that's how. But I was actually supposed to go to Silicon Valley, but because of a girl that I met, and but because of a girl that I met who's now my wife, I ended up in Boston and and I would never gone to Boston with a four season, just like in Europe, no-transcript but because of her.

Speaker 2:

At a BU she studied law, she's a boring attorney, a tax attorney, and it turns out at one of the reunion parties, a friend of the friend happens to be the financial controller at Z Corporation and I had lunch with him in 2003. I saw the ball bearing glue and super glue and powder starch back then during Indiana Jones excavating, and I saw this ball bearing and I fell in love with this technology and I was like, wow, in five years everybody will be using it. So that's how I got into 3D printing. But I did a detour for 23 years in Copenhagen, denmark, awesome country, just a little bit too small for me. They have this, uh, this hidden um law the gender law, meaning that it's very socialistic. Don't think you're better than your neighbor. Don't try to stand out and don't praise yourself. Be like everybody, be like your neighbor. And I'm like I have one life. I'm like I'm going to make the most out of this. I was out of there, so my salary doubled and I paid less in tax.

Speaker 1:

That was a good deal. It sounds like we have to thank your wife to give you to our industry here and also update.

Speaker 2:

I'm going to go visit Copenhagen soon.

Speaker 1:

I've never seen it before, so I'm very excited about it. So now, zcorp was the starting point of your extraordinary career and ever since I saw this you know you just sent me the deck and I saw that you have gone through quite a few merger acquisitions and quite a few very famous names in industry. You know I don't really want you to go through every single one of them because it will be not a podcast format, but what are some of the highlights in your career that you think you know really were instrumental for you to open up your eyes, to see something different or really capture, I guess, the essence of the industry and also you see the potential of scaling and something big, just something that's really highlights. Of these multiple milestones, where do you feel like it was life-changing?

Speaker 2:

I guess that's what I'm trying to find, I think, to make it relevant to the current consolidation. So about a decade ago, in 2013, I would say you know, history tends to repeat itself. So if you've been doing so, sometimes we don't really learn from the past, but we really should because there's a pattern. And that's one of my favorite books is who Moved my Cheese, because if you detect and pay attention to the detail and small changes, you can almost predict the trajectory of the industry or where it's going. So I've always been driven by tech. So the first consolidation, major consolidation we talk about a much simpler world, very few manufacturers, but what happened was I left ZCorp in 2010,. Joined 3D System at the rise of the consumer products crying BFB out of UK was the number one three system back then, in 2013,. But number four was equal because they needed a channel. That was really the root cause. Even applies to today. When you talk about NASDAQ or NYSE, it's all about revenue. Well, who's actually generating the revenue? You need the frontline, the revenue generators, and you need the best in class, because you're only as good as your revenue generators, right? So number one, but number four. That was the bigger consolidation early of that year, 2013. And later in that year this is when I jumped over to object because I like the multi-material, multi-material properties and multiple colors that four months into an object, instead of going public with I think the number was 75 million they canceled that and decided to merge with Stratasys, which was, in hindsight, is really a reverse acquisition, because the biggest shareholder of object was HLM Cheklam and he owned a huge chunk of the combined entity as well. So, no surprise, within 90 days, three quarters of all the management were Israeli, so it was really an interesting takeover and me being in Bellarica for Object Geometry America, I was on the winning team. Right, we were buying stratuses, so you saw that big consolidation in 2013. Ten years later, in 2023, you start to talk here about the last few years, about attempts to consolidate, but it was really expensive. So, in hindsight, thank God, nothing happened because 2024 was even cheaper and 2025 is even cheaper.

Speaker 2:

And this is actually where we actually have Nano Dimension who, at the rise of being a nobody, played the stock market and raised funding and ended up with $1.3 billion in cash and you can do a lot with that kind of watchers and no matter what death of metal, they were acquiring other big company like envision tech, and next one, nano dimension, ended up buying everything for cheaper, and also nano also mod forge. So the challenge now is um, it's always the having the right people on the bus to actually do the work, to do the execution. So the biggest challenge is they to actually do the work, to do the execution. So the biggest challenge is they can go two ways. It could be spectacular great integration cut the fat, cut the overhead, simplify everything, keep it simple, focus on our revenue. It could be a great story and great for the industry, and right now, nanodimension is trying to be the third largest player, but it could be the biggest one in the entire space. If they play that card right. They only have 845 million left.

Speaker 2:

But if they don't do it, right and they don't have people who actually know this industry and their leadership, it might go in a different direction.

Speaker 1:

I mean merger and acquisition very difficult to do. Well, to be honest with you In history, I would say more than 80% I think I pulled those numbers somewhere, but it's definitely more than 80% of the merger and acquisitions will not go as defined as successful and, like you said, there are many challenging parts of perfect integration. Asset allocation, I mean, just because you have money doesn't mean it's going to be well used to have a high return on investment or equity or asset. So it's you know, in the history of all these merger and acquisitions in your mind, just on top of your head, what is actually considered a good acquisition so far.

Speaker 2:

I would say the initial one. I was kind of like the architect behind that right.

Speaker 1:

Because I left.

Speaker 2:

Zcorp and joined 3D System 2010. They really needed to build a channel to go global and back then Stratasys had the best channel and still has the best channel, but mainly because they are SOLIDWORKS vService and so they had to build their own secondary and so them buying. Zcorp gave them that channel to boost all the new product and innovation acquisition that they have made. So I think that went pretty well. But it went well because they did a deep cut from the very beginning. If you're going to make things right from the beginning, make a hard decision in the beginning. Don't do a second wave, because it just kills morale. Do a big, huge cut in the beginning and just focusing on being honest with yourself. Stop ego and revenue. Look at what is actually making money, but not just today, but what will make money in five years and what else is coming, because all companies have an issue with blind spots. They don't know what's coming, and there are companies and products coming out that will challenge Markforged even more as early as this summer. Are they aware of that? I don't know. So if they do a major cut and have the right people to lead, you know most companies have full control. It's their salespeople they direct. But it's a very different franchise model when you have value-added reseller, because they're like mercenaries, they don't have to sell your product.

Speaker 2:

But if there's a long history and there's trust, is it really a channel company? And to answer that question, it's really the people you have. Do they have the DNA of channel? Do they understand those? Because a true channel manager is actually a business consultant. He's not just a product sales trainer, because it's really about collaborating beyond the sales and marketing and branding and technical support to be your virtual sales force as an OEM, and that takes a different mindset. It's very rare that in this industry that you have people who can do both. Because just because you're the greatest soccer player, like Tom Brady, he's a great quarterback, that doesn't qualify, necessarily mean he'll be an amazing coach and picking players Not necessarily.

Speaker 2:

It's a different skill set. It is a different mindset and I think you need to have an understanding of both, because in this world with so many OEMs, often companies will have a hybrid model where you have direct and even multiple layer of referral sales agent, virtual direct resell, two-tier distributor. There it's getting more complex. The world was similar 20 years ago.

Speaker 1:

So I'm not very familiar with sales and marketing. Can you just explain to us what a typical channel manager does on a daily basis?

Speaker 2:

I think the best part of being a channel manager is you get to pick, you get to recruit, you get to. So most company 3D printing startup, they had the technology, they make a product. How do you go to market? And the fast track is getting people who actually sells the 3D CAD software. So if you have the content 3D printing is an output device then they can.

Speaker 2:

So a sales manager does five things they profile, they go to market strategy, they go out and recruit all these resellers. They educate and train them beyond sales and marketing and branding and servicing and application for recurring revenue and technical support for service. So it's a multi-facet. So the channel manager has evolved to be much more within 3D printing because it's high-tech sales. It's not even cutting it, it's bleeding it. It's like people don't even know what a 3D printer is.

Speaker 2:

Yes, so you educate them, you manage them and then you evaluate recurrently whether you need to refresh, because the truth is they're like mercenaries and once you depleted them if they don't involve you kind of depleted their comfort zone, their install base, their 50 closest friends. But if they don't know how to extend their reach, then you might need to. That's why you saw in the recent years that the best way, the only way for Marfo to grow, was to get more resellers, to get revenue from demo units and then, just like, they have like seven resellers in Japan, which is crazy because the business market is not big enough. So it's no surprise that you saw a decline when they became more selfish than actually being a partner to their reseller partners.

Speaker 1:

I was going to ask you to name who in the industry do you think are the best channel managers, but I think I have one sitting right in front of me and now you're the CEO of Aniso Print. President, how do you say it right?

Speaker 2:

Aniso Print.

Speaker 1:

Aniso Print President. How do you say it right An isoprint An isoprint President.

Speaker 2:

Okay, so in most 3D printing you have a part like SLA or carbon. You have a part, so it's usually XYZ strong, that's isotropic. But for carbon fiber it's really not new. Like for years, for years, for decades, for all the planes that you've been on, the fuselage was done with carbon fiber but it's very thick tape but that was only strong, uh, anisotropic. Anisotropic mean only in the direction of the fiber is strong, not in the Z. So that's why anisotropic became anisotropic. 3d printing anisoprint.

Speaker 1:

I see so it's stronger.

Speaker 2:

In mechanical property it's only in the direction, not in X, Y, Z.

Speaker 1:

Okay, got it. Yeah, so it's like any direction, basically right Only direction of the fiber. But is the fiber only one direction or is it a randomized direction? It's one direction.

Speaker 2:

So for here, in this case, you have layer by layer, right, but you have continuous carbon fiber around the hole. I see, and you can do lattice, I see you apply it. But if you pull the carbon fiber away from each other vertically it will be very strong. But if you put a force perpendicular, it will break because it wasn't designed from that force.

Speaker 1:

So, therefore, you can engineering it in such a way to decide on what side of the strength should be and what direction it should be. You can have full control of the end product.

Speaker 2:

But then XYZ in the advent of what's coming. It's usually newer technology, newer innovation.

Speaker 1:

So we talk about planar.

Speaker 2:

XY just moving the build bed. But now we talk about I post a lot about non-planar, really about five axes and six axes. That means now you're no longer confined, the you're no longer confined, the direction is no longer confined just to X, y every day at a time. But now you can manipulate.

Speaker 2:

You can do a six axis robotic printing that will go to the next level and I have a change from that because I did a Revo where we did a bike frame with continuous carbon fiber with a six axis ABB. So me going to a Revo with a gantry-based desktop system is kind of like an easier solution than a big robot that I have.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean this sounds like exponential growth future, because when we come from 2D space to 3D space, that was explosion of us capable of making new things, think differently, and now we're going into even more directions. Now we have more parameters to play with. What do you see as some of the major applications of this kind of technology For our technology, yeah.

Speaker 2:

So I think what is unique for us is, unlike anybody else on the planet, for continuous carbon fiber is anything that's airborne, because in essence it's kind of like. Kind of like your body wouldn't work if you didn't have reinforcement the bones inside your body or the metal rebar in any building on the planet. So you need that reinforcement. So it is common sense that anything that is airborne, especially if it's battery driven. What does that require? It has to be strong but light, but light.

Speaker 2:

At certain things happening in Europe right now you can see the rise and growth of drones, uavs and satellites and space and aerospace Anything airborne. It needs to be strong and lighter and especially with regulated industry like aerospace or space or outer space with FAA, you also need high temperature in case of fire that is somewhat resistant, flame retardant. So this is where you might need more than a stratus affordis. You might want Ultem, which is already quantified and pre-approved, but we're the only company in the world that on top of that, we can even add continuous carbon fiber inside. So this part for high temperature for aerospace, drones, ulv nobody else in the world than an isoplane can do high temperature with carbon fiber reinforcement.

Speaker 2:

So generally this is one of the reasons why I joined this company, because there are a lot of the same or incremental improvement. But unless you are unique, you don't deserve to live or get funding. And the reason why they're able to do this is because we have patented co-extrusion and that means we can blend two filaments into the same extruder head. So here we have two filaments going to one extruder head. One is always continuous carbon fiber and one is a plastic. It's an open platform. You can change everything, it's offline and the plastic you can buy it locally from Polymaker or another brand, and so it's awesome for research and commercial research so yeah, so twan is showing some slides which we will share later, um, and also the video as well in the future.

Speaker 1:

Um, so yeah, so it sounds like this is almost like open source material selection. Um, and of all the research projects that are ongoing, if you can disclose, because I know some of them are preparatory what are some of the interesting stuff people are attempting right now? A lot of drones.

Speaker 2:

Oh gosh, A lot of drones.

Speaker 1:

Is this mostly in the sky of New Jersey or Pittsburgh?

Speaker 2:

or New Jersey. No, we talk about military defense drugs.

Speaker 1:

Oh, okay, got it, we are not talking about consumer. We talk about so remember our system is like a quarter million.

Speaker 2:

So in the rise of tension in Ukraine and potentially in Taiwan, everybody's freaking out where, in the event of war, the winner will be closely tied to manufacturing capability. So if you cannot manufacture in high volume enough, the only reason why Ukraine is able to still sustain itself and defend itself is they have massive print farms doing 300, 400 drones per day. But this is a one-way ticket drone. But this is just to give an idea of if that was just hobbyists and prosumer. It wasn't the military doing it, but now there are a lot of research and testing fields. So in the future I'm seeing a spike in university research for drones and UAV and EV towers. Even so, anything airborne, where you need something strong, you need something big, you need something high temperature. We are the only choice. A force can only give you alternative. It won't be able to give you continuous carbon fiber. Yes, everybody today can do smaller part, produce chopped fiber, but it wouldn't be a heated chamber. That's an industrial grade production.

Speaker 1:

I know I've been hearing a lot of drums lately in the 3D printing industry, but you know, unfortunately this podcast and also I primarily focus on health care and I mean, the only thing I ever want to interact with Drone is my Amazon delivery in the future. I really does not hope there's any kind of hot war anywhere. It's just human misery and tragedy. But yes, I am aware of this very vibrant industry. A little niche there with 3D printing industry. A little niche there with 3D printing. Now going to healthcare, you mentioned that there are some applications potentially also using continuous fiber. Do you want to tell us what that is?

Speaker 2:

Some of the projects that I've been working on are more related to prosthetics, meaning like amputees or exoskeleton, where you need something strong and light because they are battery driven, right Actuators and so forth. So bionic amputees prosthetics will need that. So I can see that. But otherwise we're mainly for anything airborne. But for prosthetics devices, drill guides you really need a very if guides, you really need a very if only. If you really need a very strong tool, would you need carbon fiber. Otherwise chopped fiber might be good enough, but definitely in the rise of where we're going with exoskeleton, where it's human-sized, human body, it needs to carry a lot of weight. You do need the continuous carbon fiber. So I think minus the exoskeleton.

Speaker 1:

Speaking of tragedies, I mean Ukraine, I believe now people are 3D printing prosthetics because now they have more of patients to treat as a consequence of the war. The other thing I was thinking about maybe assisted devices, you know as an extension of exoskeleton, like wheelchair. Assistive devices, you know as an extension of exoskeleton, like wheelchair, maybe some kind of hospital facility products, which actually there's one company that came up in mind. It's called PolyUnity. It's a Canadian startup and they have a really interesting platform of printing and designing first and then print all kinds of hospital-needed equipments that the hospital either can't afford or unable to procure during their normal process, like, for example, during COVID. So that's, it's very interesting to cross over and see. You know, what can cool technology do for interesting applications. So I mean, you have such a just fantastic road up to this point and you probably, I would say, on average, how many trade shows do you go to? Can you count with two hands or like that's more than one in a dozen, or what?

Speaker 2:

Well, I've been doing it for 22 years so I know a lot of people and over time I'm actually it's kind of funny in the rise of social media influencer. I'm actually a media partner for multiple conferences and forums, like the one one in Berlin, am Forum, or AM Forum in Milan, italy, or the Danish AM Summit or the Conclave, am Tech in India. So I'm trying to give back by highlighting all these cool events. But just to give you an idea of just this spring, I went to TCT Japan and Tokyo. I went to TCT Asia and Shanghai. I did Rabbit plus TCT in Detroit. I did SolarWorks World, which is now 3D Experience.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I did AMOG the week before Rabbit and we had to reschedule our podcast because I had to jump on a plane, go to Beijing for CIMT, which is the equivalent of the IMTS in Chicago every two years. So, because I'm fortunate to be able to be out and about and really be in the front line seeing what's happening, do I actually have a lot of interesting conversation and see it for myself, and that gave me a unique perspective. So, just like when I bumped into the organizer of TCT and he was like you're the only one I know who did all three TCT events and they were very different. They were very different flavors. So if he was to ask me what was the difference, well, in Japan, because the language barrier, because it's very expensive, it was smaller, but it was very reseller-driven because the local reseller spoke Japanese and they were local right. So it wasn't any OEM staffing.

Speaker 2:

In China it was local, most 3D print companies either based outside of Shanghai or in Shenzhen. So they showed up with massive force and Rabbit plus TTT becoming much more diverse with co-location. I think the future of Treasure will be co-location of different flavors, because people were doing that anyway. Right, all these generic shows. They were very generic but people were kind of doing dental, aerospace, automotive. So having these co-locations so Rabbit SME did it with Airdev, with aerospace that was awesome because you get a different kind of audience that you would not have access to or you wouldn't have the exposure to them had they not been co-located within the same hall of Rabbit plus TCT. So I think we're going to see much more be exposed to them had they not been co-located within the same hall of rapper plasticity.

Speaker 1:

So I think we're going to see much more of that and yeah, so these are just the shows that you went this year, so we're not even talking about. So what we were talking about was just the show that when you also went to amog as well, which was originally our plan to talk about, I was like hey twan, can we talk about your amog experience? And he's like, how about let to talk about? I was like hey Twan, can we talk about your AMOG experience? And he's like, how about let's talk about the world? And now we have 20 events to cover. So, which is incredible, because you know, it's almost like you can pull yourself away from this little planet and you can see it from afar to have the big picture of what is going on in the world. So, of all the experiences so far this year, what are some of the coolest technologies that you saw that you think could be a game changer?

Speaker 2:

I think I'll answer your question in a different way. Shanghai TCT Asia in Shanghai. Okay, that was my first, definitely not my last.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I want to go with you, by the way, next time you go, sure, sure I can introduce you to a few people.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, or maybe many, but I was blown away and I'm like, when I left after that week, I was like America, the Western world. You have no idea what's coming and this is not something that is emerging now. They've been working on this for the last decade. So you know, you can learn from history, but the only constant is change. But the only constant is change.

Speaker 2:

And in the event of AI, machine learning, automation, robotics and RoboDog walking around and humanoids, so I would like to grow the parallel to Sony Walkman 50 years ago, or the old Kia, samsung cars, automotive cars from Korea we were laughing at them. Kia was like kicking it again, right, but we're not laughing at the latest Kia cars or innovation coming out of Japan. But now, with the rise of China, one of my slides that I sent you is called the Rise of the Dragons and it's highlighting just the tip of some of the names, that is, spending more marketing dollars than others. But at TCT Asia, shanghai, I saw a lot of companies I never heard of and they had booth bigger than EOS and HP in Detroit. So they're like where did these guys come from? So you hear about the typical bright laser technology, fasun, hanbang and E plus, but how about RV, metal or Eddie Green or everybody?

Speaker 2:

else it's like I was shocked about what is coming. So no wonder that America in general is worried about this new superpower, the rise of this superpower. It could be a contender, and that leads us to a more sensitive topic of tariff.

Speaker 2:

Right, that would mean. But I'm fascinated and excited and a little bit scared at the same time, because I saw more EVs in my life just being in a instead of an Uber, a DD, just driving on the highway and see all five cars were EVs because you can see on the license plate which color they have. And there were models of BYD. Like a Tesla Model 3 is $23,000 and there were models of BYD.

Speaker 2:

My software engineer colleague gave me a ride from Hong Chao Airport to Pudong Airport and he's just a software engineer colleague gave me a ride from Hong Chao Airport to Pudong Airport and he's just a software engineer and his EV is like with more iPads than even a Tesla Model S. And you're like, you're just an engineer, you're not even an executive and you can afford this. And so the speed of innovation. You have BYD UA that can drive and sail in the river how crazy is that? And do a B60 and park your car for you and spinning all the wheels with suspension that is superior to any Western car. So I'm like it's like I went into the future 10 years into the future when I was in Shanghai.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean, our fear of a rising competitor is not new, right? Like a couple of decades ago, people were afraid of Japan, the rise of Japan, and you know, look where we are today. I mean Japan is also on the rise, again, I mean in parallel to. You know what's happening with China today. So these scenarios happen over the years. Again, I mean in parallel to you know what's happening with China today. So there are these scenarios happen over the years and so far America, you know, in particular, has fared very well. But it takes leadership and strategic strategies to actually win if we want to be winning. You know what's interesting is okay.

Speaker 1:

Of all the people I don't know in Shanghai, I do know one person and her name is Kitty Wong, I believe. Yeah, she is, I think, director or editor for 3D Valley, which is the major media for 3D printing industry in China. When I was visiting and she invited me to host a small in-person event in Shanghai and guess what? I saw my very first 3D printing museum and I've never seen anywhere that has a museum dedicated to 3D printing technology, from what it is to duplications and the various outcome of metal to polymer. It was a beautiful museum, very high tech. It was owned by a real estate mogul in Shanghai and I was just shocked.

Speaker 1:

I was like you know, I thought we're like way ahead of the game, but we don't really have anything like a 3D printing museum. And then I was like, wow, china is really. This is a 2000,. It was 2018. I was like China is really, you know, coming up here. And then Kitty's like no, no, no, we're really behind. You guys are the best. I feel like at the time she was playing the art of war with me is, you know, not let your enemy know where you actually are and you know when you actually caught up and winning, you surprised them. So anyway, so that's, that's what, how I feel, but um, remember there have been years of of practice, right?

Speaker 2:

uh, you might not know this, but as soon as I joined zcorp in late 03, 22 years ago, the first thing I did was putting two resales, because for Intel, I was traveling to Beijing and Shenzhen monthly, every month, from Denmark.

Speaker 1:

So of course.

Speaker 2:

I felt comfortable with China in 99, when you even have a Starbucks in a forbidden city. But I put Beijing Longyuan it's a local OEM back then, 22 years ago as one of my resellers, and Shanghai Union Tech. They both are still around today, but I was taking a risk of will they clone my product or will they not? Or their new 3D printing. We were different technology glue and powder versus theirs. Union Tech was SLA and the fear of clones.

Speaker 2:

We thought that the only way to counter this is a generic answer that I have and my opinion, which is proven today. So even after 22 years, there's still not a commercial clone of the Z-Corp technology. It's owned by 3D Systems today. But because if you keep innovating the resin, the glue, the binder, the sequencer, the binder anybody can reverse the hardware and maybe even the powder, but the binder is the secret sauce, the software everybody can clone. If you continue to innovate that every six months, they will never be able to catch up. So even to this day, there's not a commercial Z-Corp clone in China. So it can't be countered by keep innovating, stop having fear. Just keep doing your own stuff, swimming your own lane.

Speaker 1:

That's the only way to counter clones, absolutely, I mean, you can copy only so much. I think China has kind of now out of the face of copying. I'm not saying it's a good thing to copy other people without permission and violating copyright. There are consequences of that, I think you know. In part, trade war is a reflection of the anger behind, you know these copyright violations. However, now China is innovating itself as well.

Speaker 1:

You know, I don't know enough with the 3D printing patents, but what I heard in the news in the biopharma side, american companies are now acquiring copyrights and licenses from the Chinese biopharma researcher. So we are also benefiting from their innovation now. Now, with the tariff, that will be questionable profitability and even feasibility in the future. So that's just a sidetrack. So, of all the trade shows that you have attended so far, you mentioned a couple of really interesting I wouldn't say I mean possible unicorn company in the future and you mentioned there are a couple of companies and you want to tell us what those are, for example, the RapidPrint, liquidprint that you were talking about.

Speaker 2:

Well, it's always cool to look at cooler technology. So, at Rapid, what the three companies caught my eye and remember I've seen a lot over the last 22 years.

Speaker 2:

But RapidLiquidPrinting is extrusion into a GUI, a vat of GUI like an aquarium, and they do mostly silicone, just like Linkster in France. But they had a very good demo, live demo. That was the first time I saw the OLP technology in life and it was quite big. So that was cool how they solidified in the GUI. So there's supposedly no post-processing. Another could have a medical impact is the manifest, which formerly was known as Vitro 3D. That was interesting because they have rotational volumetric AM, but it's still in its infancy. But what I liked about them is their go-to-market strategy. So instead of selling to a few people, they actually want to collaborate with just universities and go together with a handful of key universities around the world and discover killer applications together. So that's a much more cautious and more realistic approach. The third company that I actually posted this morning actually met the Swedish inventor doing Formnex because I encountered him during my three and a half years at Desktop Metal.

Speaker 2:

But the whole notion of what you've seen over the last 22 years or more is for extrusion, fff. If you have a print head, what comes in is what you extrude and you want more material, more multicolor. You have multiple heads. You saw that with E3D, you saw that with an ISO print, you saw that with the Prusa XL. But their approach is why are you changing the whole freaking head when it's really just the filament and the nozzle?

Speaker 2:

So the Bontech technology in there is you can have an array with much smaller nozzle tool interchanger and I think that is really exciting. And when you couple that with five or six axes, with the S4 slicer or Duet PCBs, then I'm excited about the future, what it can be able to do. So 3D printing is only as good as what it can make. But having these technical challenges being resolved meaning like changing material, different color, different material property, but also counter the majority of the industry. The Z string is so crappy because it's just adhesion of layer by layer, but if you go non-planar then you can counter that and improve that.

Speaker 2:

So those are the exciting development that I am tracking and that's why I go. Where I've gone is I look for where's the market moving, where should it go? And then often, if you look at my nine companies, I usually jump in and be part of that story.

Speaker 1:

So I'm assuming that you posted this new technology somewhere on your social media. I posted five this morning I did.

Speaker 2:

Awesome. I will link to that.

Speaker 1:

And I have to say you know, of all those social media influencers, you're the first person that I got to know and like and you're probably the original 3D printing influencer in the world I want to mention that it just was a hobby.

Speaker 2:

And you know what I do anybody can do, it's just share cool things.

Speaker 1:

No, I don't think so it takes a lot of work. I mean, here's the thing I want to ask you. You have a lot of information on your infographics. So tuan has an array of great infographics, or quite informative, but you have to get information somewhere right? So how, first of all, find the source of this information, and how do you like organize and how long does it take you to even create these infographics you want?

Speaker 2:

my secret? Huh, well, you don't have to go too deep. No, it's actually so. I think I was a teacher in my previous life, so I have a booklet. So I have a booklet that I learned very early in my career is, I think, better on paper, because when you put it down, you can move things around. Down, you can move things around, and what happens in the booklet is when you have this thought.

Speaker 2:

The truth about creativity is it doesn't come in one go, it's a compilation of a lot of different thoughts and it takes time to simmer and sometimes you have to collaborate. So a while back, like give you an example of, I did one with the sensor-based AM S-PAM. So in the past it was just binder jetting and they needed a center. Right, it was either metal FDM or metal binder jetting. They needed a center. But then Tritone had a different approach, but they also need a center. So then we're like huh, there are many ways you can do additively a green part or brown part that needs to be sintered and skipping deep binding.

Speaker 2:

So as I learn wherever I've gone, and over time all these ex-colleagues of mine, they also jump around. So I have a huge Rolodex and in this case, I work with Ben Arno collaborating from his tech, from Tritone. What were they doing differently? And then we mapped out all the players who were doing what technology, which print engine, and what you still need to center to encounter. What kind of shrinkage are you suffering? So it's a combination. So back to LinkedIn. My secret sauce has been a combination of because I've seen a lot, I'm really very selective.

Speaker 2:

It has been really cool, and if it's cool for me, it's probably cool for a lot of people, because I've seen a lot already over the last two years and if it doesn't impress me, then it probably won't impress a lot of people.

Speaker 2:

So it's a combination of cool stuff, interesting stuff. Be first to announce and yeah, I spend way too much time on LinkedIn, but it's also a very powerful sales tool because 8 billion people a billion are on LinkedIn and they are decision makers and it's part of the new frontier for sales. It's like if you're not on LinkedIn, you're not in sales, because everybody being even everybody knocking on door, flying around, knocking on door, setting up meetings, checking in, checking out, do a presentation, and that's it. The new frontier has changed. By doing what I do over the years, my reach is about 112,000 engagement comments and 12 million eyeballs going through my content. So either you want to spend time on your personal branding or not. I'm sorry to tell people this you have a personal branding, whether you spend a second on it or not. I'm sorry to tell people this you have a personal branding whether you spend a second on it or not. That is when they Google you and whatever they find, that is the impression of your personal branding, so you might as well take ownership of it and tailor it and design it to what do you want to be known for? My secret sauce is I want to educate, I want to inspire, I want to share my personal journey. What I went through, and the worst thing that happened, was not because it wasn't that bad, because where I ended up being was where I stepped up. So, so a lot of people going through tough times right now and to them I can say I've been there as well. But sometimes it's because, maybe because you didn't move yourself to your next chapter. But you need to have a notch. Had you got yourself, you wouldn't have that notch. So it's gonna be okay and the market will. It's very cyclical. It will go down and it will go up. But you have to be brave, you have to be strong.

Speaker 2:

I did take a break recently. I almost thought about not leaving the industry but staying close enough. When I look at the fourth industrial revolution, what were the components? And I thought robotics, ai, with like Makina Labs. I was chasing that. So I was at least close enough with an additive that will converge, because the future will be a conversion of multiple technologies. So it was more clear to me 10 years ago in 15 that it was all going to be about metals, when less than 5% of all the exhibition halls were about metals or talk about metals. I saw the writing on the wall. It was all going to be about metals and I made bold predictions about that and I wasn't that wrong. And so it's hard at this time to figure out what is the next frontier, what will happen in five to ten years and I think it has to be when you talk about what's happening with tariffs and reshoring and manufacturing factors of the future, that is, fully automated sensors, autonomous, with human eyes, that can be placed anywhere, just need to add power In Boston, in New York, in Frankfurt, doesn't matter, I think, going beyond the labor cost. I think that's the next frontier.

Speaker 2:

So I've been decoding what is in a fracture of the future, doing multiple tasks. And what can it do Isolated? You can see a lot of robots can do fragmentedly, like you can do incremental sheet forming. They can do cement, 3d printing, building shelves of a home, just a wall. Don't hype it up with building a house. It's just building the walls, shelves, or you're doing composite, you're doing furniture, but but that can be resolved in one system if you just have a tool changer, learning from cnt. If you have a tool change, you have a machine that can do all the materials that you can think of. You can, freaking, even do binder jetting spring if you wanted to do binder jetting as well. So I'm trying to to decode what one of my slides that I sent you was my first take on what could be the microfactory of the future that could be transported with just two 40-foot containers and be deployed.

Speaker 1:

Right, the microfactory concept is extraordinary and I feel like that is a topic for our next podcast. But I want to go just slightly walk back a little bit about building a personal brand that you were talking, because I certainly think you did a fantastic job doing that for yourself and you're one of the most heard and also credible voice in the industry. But what? But you obviously are an extrovert um. It's it's very obvious, um, that you love being with people and you get energized. But what if, like someone who's very introverted which I would say in this industry there are plenty, you know, I think, myself included believe or not that? Um? So what are some advice that you would have for people who aren't really comfortable with people meeting, people, hustling, but also want to build a brand? What would you say?

Speaker 2:

It's really going back to one thing Be brave. Okay, because that's how it all started. And once you start being brave and take risk and you get success, then you get more self-confidence and then you take bigger risk. So I had a beautiful life. I was an engineer, I gave everything to my siblings, packed three bags and moved to America in 2002, starting from scratch On a L1B, and I might be deported if I don't get a green card. So I think for any immigrant and luckily America has a lot of immigrants you've got to have courage, you've got to be brave. You've got to have courage, you've got to be brave.

Speaker 2:

And that's what fascinates me about entrepreneurship is you've got to be brave, because in the beginning I was actually not so much an extrovert, but later on, when I start having conversation with people, I learn and I realized that just because you finish school doesn't mean you're done learning for the rest of your life, and I start appreciating learning from other people. You can do that by reading biography from other leaders around the world and be inspired by dead people usually, and you can talk to them or have a conversation. For now, ai will change that in the future. For now, ai will change that in the future. But having conversation will help you to gain more knowledge, because the second industrial revolution didn't happen by one person. It was actually in the British clubhouses tea clubs where the right minds came together and we had the great minds combined. That's how you came up with the steam engine. So I was fascinated by that, by what if I connect with, if I don't connect with people, I will never learn the bigger picture of what could come. So by connecting with people, but then you can do all that from your living room or from your bedroom. But there comes a time where you need to share.

Speaker 2:

Well, it was actually a remember the last hype. The media were not educating 3D printing and there were a lot of mistakes and confusion about what 3D printing was. And I'm like I'm an insider. Somebody should speak up, somebody should re-educate them or correct the messaging. So it started out of to try to contain the bollocks that was coming out from the media, and that's how I started to train people or share what I learned.

Speaker 2:

So when I joined Arcam after 10 years in polymer, I couldn't even find. I Googled everywhere. I couldn't even find a white paper, a tutorial, a webinar or covers about 3D printing. I want to know who are the players, how many players in metals, what do they do? How do they differ? What verticals? How much are the market share? There was no data and I'm a sales director for East Coast and I need to learn this. Otherwise I'll position myself and I need marketing leads, otherwise I can't sell. So it was out of necessity.

Speaker 2:

But, going back to being brave, just share, just do it. Really, I love the Nike song just do it, but just sharing what I knew my journey as I joined RK in June 14,. I shared what I learned and a lot of people benefit from that because metal was on the rise. Right. Like I shared an analysis, my slide deck was presented at AMOG, so actually anybody who went to Jacksonville AMOG in 2015 would have a peek in what's happening in 3D printing, because that was my prediction 10 years ago and it talks about that in that. Did you know? One of my slides I reposted quite a lot is it took 20 years for the first 1,000 industrial metal machine to be sold and then in 15,. Then it only took 13 and 14, two years to sell the next 10,000. And I predicted it would be 1,000 in 2015. I was wrong, it was only 950. But then it just keeps on growing.

Speaker 2:

So by sharing what I knew or what I learned or what I observed or what I think will happen, luckily, so far my experience has been it's been a very collaborative community of 3D printing professionals on LinkedIn and a lot of these are dinosaurs and they were sharing their thoughts and ideas and challenges and comments. So together we were learning collectively and that's why some of the best high schools in America is collective learning the Harkness program at, for instance, phillips Exeter Academy. Actually they were the founder inventor of that technology. You learn collectively. They don't have students and a teacher, one-way communication. They only have one table, it's always oval and the teacher is just a facilitator, moderator, but they learn collectively and I think doing that, taking that onto the Internet on LinkedIn and sharing what I have I have a rough draft that onto the internet on LinkedIn and sharing what I have.

Speaker 2:

I have a rough draft but because of the feedback then my next slide gets even better. So from time to time the slides that takes. So I have like 20 different slides working in my notebook. That is simmering and it takes time. And when it's ready, when is it good enough to be published and then get feedback. But yeah, some of the infographic, like metals, all the market share, the particle size, who's making the atomizer and are they sustainable, are they not, and what print engine is using what particle size, and all that. It took me months to have it, but I gave everything for free and I think that helps to build goodwill, because another secret is you get more by giving, not by taking absolutely.

Speaker 1:

um, I mean, today you gave us an hour. That's extremely valuable to the audience. Um, and what you just said, remind me of two books I've read. One is calledset, which basically means don't just focus on one thing. Basically it's just saying don't focus just your tunnel vision, don't have tunnel vision, but open yourself to the world, to opportunities, to different concepts, ideas, perspectives. Don't jump into a conclusion quickly, just be open to opportunities, into conclusion quickly, just be open to opportunities.

Speaker 1:

And the other book is give and take, which you just said, and actually they tracked, you know, people who give or take or versus neutral, like, which means I give and also take, but has to be equal, that kind of thing. And they track the success over the careers of these people and actually, actually, you know, is the giver actually come out ahead at the end? So I think you're a giver for sure in our industry Knowledge, time, energy, advice. So I'm incredibly appreciative of what you're doing for the industry and I certainly hope to invite you back for more in-depth conversation about a particular elements that you mentioned, because we certainly covered a variety of things today, but we didn't have the time to really cover the depth, which requires me to do my homework too. So thank you so much, tuan, for today the conversation, and hope to see you again soon.

Speaker 2:

Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1:

The content of this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute medical, legal or financial advice. The views and opinions expressed by the host and guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers, affiliates or any associated organizations.